Fog Cannon?

[cannonmn]

I think this is a fog cannon although I can't find any documentation on such an item.  I know that practically all lighthouses back at a certain time in history had cannons or other noise-making devices since they were required to sound fog signals at frequent intervals, say once per minute, during periods of fog.  They could also use a bell I think, I haven't looked up what the rules were back then.

Supposedly this little cannon and some others would be placed in some kind of rack where they could be loaded and fired at those frequent intervals, so perhaps many of them would be in the rack.  I got an identical pair of these in a big trade deal about 15 years ago.  They came from a Civil War dealer who got them on consignment from an antique gun dealer.

The only time I've heard them mentioned was when a major arms dealer was trying to sell me a large lot of original, antique linen full-sized production cannon drawings he got from the Bailey and Pegg foundry in London.  I was of course stupid not to buy them all, but they were thousands of dollars for the set and that was hard for me to do at the time.  The arms dealer mentioned that the set included all kinds of cannons from very large ones "down to the little fog cannons."  So at least I know that Bailey and Pegg made some type of fog cannon at one time.

These cannons have two-inch bores, are about 15 inches long, and weigh about 65 lbs. each.  They were cast with no trunnions since there was no need for them on a noise-maker.

Does anyone know anything about fog cannons?

[Victor3]

 Interesting. Never heard of such a thing.

 Musta been quite a chore to keep them sounding off near San Francisco or other frequently foggy place. No wonder they started using horns 

[thelionspaw]

Interesting is right. I just googled "lighthouse fog cannon". The examples were surplus full sized cannon from what I just read but no history is ever complete.

I got to thinking about where I was raised and listening to the fog horn as clear as a bell (so to speak). We had fogs where you couldn't see the gate from the porch. That all ended when the farms disappeared, houses were built and the heat from the houses disbursed the fog.

Question: Since I always get a better report on a clear day with my cannon and deer were more safely jacked "by my neighbours" when it was a poor day which muffled the report, would the tone of a bell carry further than a cannon?

The imaged cannons above would not be as loud as a surplus piece in the first instant. It makes me wonder if they are truly, "fog cannon". Why mess with little stuff when big stuff was available and lives and commerce was at stake?

I'm a little foggy on this

rc

[and7barton]

Question: Since I always get a better report on a clear day with my cannon and deer were more safely jacked "by my neighbours" when it was a poor day which muffled the report, would the tone of a bell carry further than a cannon?


rc
[/quote]

I occasionally fired big cannon charges in thick fog
when I lived out in the countryside. The report always sounded more "Window-rattling" to me when it was foggy. I put it down to the fact that in thick fog, the humidity is extremely high...... the air is loaded with water droplets...... Now, water is incompressible, so any kind of shockwave from a cannon blast is going to be transmitted through the air much more efficiently, like a depth charge under the sea transmits its destructive power to the hull of a sub.
I know when it's foggy ordinary sounds are muffled to the point to dead silence, but ordinary sounds are much weaker in their energy than a gunpowder charge. It's like comparing a pressure-washer's blast with a little sprinkle from a watering-can.

[cannonmn]

>The imaged cannons above would not be as loud as a surplus piece in the first instant. It makes me wonder if they are truly, "fog cannon". Why mess with little stuff when big stuff was available and lives and commerce was at stake?

I think I'd compare my little cannons to thunder mugs, which as far as I have been able to discover in literature, were exclusively noise-makers.  The bore dimensions of these iron items compare favorably in dimensions to some of the larger thunder mugs I've encountered.  This doesn't answer your question but is more or less something to compare.

I'd guess these were made the size they were so they'd be faster and easier (and possibly safer) to load.  Since prices of cannons back then were based on weight, you could buy 10 of these things for the price of one unmounted 4 or 6-pounder tube.

[thelionspaw]

Would there be a monetary issue if surplus + light house service were the equation?  Wouldn't it be like Peter paying Paul?  Federal to Federal?

One of the sites I had just googled, described how the artilerist that served with the light house keeper, ran himself ragged in a 2 day fog, discharging the ordinance non stop.

Everything I read, pointed to full size cannon that were replaced by bells.  Thunder mugs I can understand but how would these little guys be mounted or handled? Not just laying on the ground, etc.?

Back to report: I live at 2000' on a hillside in a dog-leg hollow. The cannon is always positioned the same way, no matter the atmospheric conditions. When it is overcast, which it always is in the morning when the stream below gives up its moisture as a fog that covers the floor of the valley, the windows do briefly rattle and the report thuds on the opposite hillside. However when the sun comes over the mountain about 10am and the fog and clouds burn off and the air is clear, my cannon will produce a wrap around sound that goes across the valley and bounces off the opposite hillside  (where the overcast thudded after rattling the windows) and it trails off to the village on the right and the dog leg on the left.....only to come roaring back from the dog leg and annoy the village once again with the same shot.

There is a difference between locations, i.e. low countryside where sound seeks daylight and high mountainside where you become a billiard table.

Believe me when I say my .75 cal. 1843 Belgian musketoon with the 18" barrel used to thud in the woods at first light, whereas it would carry further when it was clear and the wardens could hear it.  Uh... so my neighbours told me

When it's foggy, yes the windows will rattle and the sound because the conditions enclose it, will sound quite loud, like having your head in a rain barrel but it's the crack and not the thud that carries.

In my 'umble opinion through experience and the remarks from my neighbour in the evening at coffee time, this is so. He by the way is almost stone-deaf since serving in a Sherman during WWII and is on a DAV pension. He says my cannon makes him feel whole again.

[cannonmn]

Everything I read, pointed to full size cannon that were replaced by bells.  Thunder mugs I can understand but how would these little guys be mounted or handled? Not just laying on the ground, etc.?

All good questions.  These things are most definitely cannons, and most definitely weren't aimed (no trunnions) so if you dont' think they are fog cannons, then what might they have been used for?  I cannot think of any use for them other than noise making.

I know from my discussions with the dealer who had the Bailey and Pegg drawings that the company made a small, specialized fog cannon (that name was written on the drawing) but unfortunately I didn't get a look at the drawing before he sold the set. 

Some museum somewhere has an example of a specialized fog cannon and I'd like to see a picture of one.

[thelionspaw]

In the last image, there looks like a seam in the cast? Probably a moot point. They would almost have to be lashed down because of the lack of trunions. Right? However they are tapered. How about a removeable clamp-like collar, making it a sort of swivel gun? If I had a cannon question, you (cannonmn) would be the first person I would ask. After that, it's a ouija board.

Richard

[cannonmn]

There is a visible mold parting line on the cannon as you can see in the last picture.  All cannons cast with cope and drag molds have these lines, but they are usually turned off in a lathe.  On this one it wasn't.

[thelionspaw]

So they were never meant to be "top shelf" stock. Only pedestrian. A style that was cranked out. My money is on a clamped bracket-like swivel. Probably incorrect.

rc

[Nasty Jack]

Sound carries better in a fog than on a clear day. This is a function of air density. You can demonstrate this ("Golly gee! Mr. Wizard! That's amazing!") -- I was going to use a wrist-watch as a sound source, but they're all digital these days.

Music box held in the air is much quieter than one sitting on a table. The table serves as a "sounding board," and the density of the wood amplifies the sound waves. The tin can and string "telephone" functions on the same principle.

A Google of "fog cannon" turns up a lot of atomizers used for special effects.

--------------------------------

These photos are interesting. No cascabel for recoil rigging. Trunnions are complicated to cast, moreso at any rate than "no trunnion." But the way the barrel is shaped -- and their maritime application -- it'd be an easy matter to lash them to a rail with a stout line. (Just a wild guess here.)

[Victor3]

So they were never meant to be "top shelf" stock. Only pedestrian. A style that was cranked out. My money is on a clamped bracket-like swivel. Probably incorrect.

rc

 Who knows, but as cannonmn says, I'd bet that many of them were set in a rack where they wouldn't move when fired.

 Think of what the most practical way to make multiple booms at set intervals would be if you had to do it by yourself back then.

 If it were me, I'd want at least 10 short-barreled cannons in a rack, protected from rain under some kind of awning or sticking out of a window(s) in the lighthouse wall. I'd have enough pre-made charges and wads available to last through the longest time fog hangs around in the area, priming powder and a linstock.

 Set 5 off, then start reloading them. In between reloading the first five, set the last 5 off. Load the last five. Repeat...

[cannonmn]

Each one came with a little new-made wooden frame/carriage it sat in to hold it in firing position.  I had no idea whether these were copied from old crumbling ones or were instead a recent owner's invention so I didn't even bother taking a photo of them.  At the time I got them I found out who the consigner was and called him to ask if he'd tell me where they came from, since that info could be important to determining their function.  He was quite rude in his refusal to tell me anything, then he called the dealer he'd consigned them to and complained, the dealer in turn called me and cussed me out for some imaginary violation of the sacred relationship between him and the consignor.   You never can tell how some folks will take an innocent question that was "fair game" in my opinion.   Well I got 'em, that's the important thing, even if I didn't get all the information I wanted.

I guess this little story points out one of the most fun parts of cannon collecting, "the hunt."  The adventure of picking them up from hither and yon always sticks with me.  I've only documented a couple of these little adventures in my you-tube videos, one about picking up an 8-pounder French gun where I had all the proper equipment, and one where I got caught with almost nothing and had to improvise while picking up a Spanish rifled 4-pounder.

Then there was the little adventure in Exton. PA over 30 years ago when I picked up a "Falkirk" 2-pounder gunade from member "Intoodeep" and his dad; we  had to wrestle it onto the space where the passenger seat was in my '74 VW superbeetle, quite a trick doing that with a 400-odd pound chunk of cast iron!

[cannonmn]

[yt=425,350]AWVBAA6IjVc[/yt]

[Cat Whisperer]

I learned from an acoustical engineer (who worked for the local muffler plant) that the FREQUENCY coming out of the exhaust from the engine into the headers and then to the mufflers was predominantly higher audio frequency which occured at a rate of repitition which was obviously lower.

That means the frequency of the cannon blast is a bunch of HF occurring once.  That is consistant with low frequencies traveling well in fog and the cannon reports being muffled.

It is also consistant with folks loosing the higher frequenccy of their hearing first from launching too many bullets without ear protection.

[navygunner]

Found this thread very interesting so decided to start googling Lighthouse and life saving services. Several mentions of "fog cannons" for various lighthouses thruout the world including Norway and 16th century China. Only pictures i've found showed full size tubes but it gives you another venue in which to "hunt"

NG

[intoodeep]

Then there was the little adventure in Exton. PA over 30 years ago when I picked up a "Falkirk" 2-pounder gunade from member "Intoodeep" and his dad; we  had to wrestle it onto the space where the passenger seat was in my '74 VW superbeetle, quite a trick doing that with a 400-odd pound chunk of cast iron!

 Oh, I must have missed this one. This is the gunade the "cannonmn" stuffed into his VW.  Also, There is a yard stick below for a size reference. Sorry to drift from the fog cannon....