Scope Rail

[guntercb]

Hello,

I have a Sidekick ML and Santa just bought me a new scope for it.  I need to find a scope rail.  I have searched this site and see that many recommend the extended rail and listed a part number; however, NEF does not make this mount anymore. Can someone tell me the part number for the normal scope rail?  I really want to get it ordered, but want to be sure I get the right one.

Thanks,
Chris

[jcal73]

I used this one on mine.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=916060



Jeff

[quickdtoo]

All scope rails and mounts made for H&Rs are listed in the FAQs and Help sticky, a good place for both of you to spend some time.

Tim

[guntercb]

All scope rails and mounts made for H&Rs are listed in the FAQs and Help sticky, a good place for both of you to spend some time.

Tim

Tim,

I spent over 20 minutes looking at the FAQ last night; however, I was getting a little confused and with the commitments in my life I did not have much free time any more.  I had seen the Leupold mount that Jeff recommended, but it seemed it was for the Handi Rifle.  I also used your search, but I was getting a little too much information and could not find exactly what I needed so I decided it was better to ask.   

Is a hammer spur and a hammer extension the same thing?  Has anyone used the Carlson's Hammer Expander on their Sidekick?

Thanks,
Chris

[carbineman]

guntercb, Here you go, This is from the barrel accessory link at www.hr1871.com
First click on customer service, then on barrel accessory program. You'll need to scroll down a bit on the page.

You will get the scope rail you need and the offset hammer spur/extension in one package

Part number R03234 Scope Mount (with Offset Hammer Spur) $19.95

[quickdtoo]

The hammer spur is the part of the hammer that is knurled, the extension fits on the spur and makes cocking the hammer easy with a scope mounted. The Leupold rail doesn't come with an extension, the only one that does is the H&R rail no matter where you order it from which can be ordered from H&R, Brownell's and other sources. Brownell's is the fastest source to get it, but cost just a tad more. The Carlson's doesn't fit very well, but will work if you modify it or the hammer. The easiest way to find the scope rails in the FAQs is scroll down the page until you see the pics of em, there are a bunch!! Uncle Mike's makes the hammer extension if you have a local source that can order it for you if that's all you really need, or you can order it direct from H&R, part # S01461 for $9.55 (866)776-9292.

Tim

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=7036&st=427-000-112&s=18066

[Busta]

guntercb,

Welcome to Graybeards!

If you go to the FAQ's and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page you will come to "Scope Bases". You might have to wait for a minute or two for the pictures to load. The scope rails are a universal fit on any factory drilled & tapped H&R/NEF rifle, whether that be a Ultra/Handi/Huntsman/Sidekick. All have three holes, and are spaced the same distance apart. You will want the H&R/NEF Standard rail, the discontinued Ultra rail was made for the very long scopes used on varmint rifles. Not needed on a Huntsman/Sidekick.

FAQ's.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,26264.0.html

Get the standard rail w/extension from Customer Service or elsewhere (see FAQ's for othe locations) like Brownell's etc., then any Weaver style rings will fit it. These can be Warnes/Leupolds/Burris/Millet, or whatever brand you prefer. Depending on the ocular bell diameter on your scope, or where the hammer is positioned after setting your eye relief, it will determine what height rings you will need. Highs are usually a safe bet, but different manufacturers have different heights, they are not universal. You may be able to get away with mediums from some manufacturers. Like I said the height of the rings and the dimensions of the scope will be the determining factor.

The Hammer Spur and Hammer Extension are not the same thing, although they are frequently referred (myself included) to as being the same thing. Hammer Spur Extension would be the correct terminology. The spur is the part of the hammer that you use to cock it, also what you attatch the hammer spur extension to.

If you want a rail other than H&R/NEF or the Leupold, check the links in this thread, there are several. Remember, you will still want/need a Hammer Extension. Personally, I would get the Standard rail w/hammer extension together.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,160114.0.html

No experience with the Carlson's Hammer Expander.

[guntercb]

I am going to get the H&R Rail and Hammer Spur.  Now I have been researching rings and it seems it depends on the type of scope.  I am mounting a Leopold UltimateSlam 3x9.  Here is a link: 

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-shooting/products/scopes/shotgunmuzzleloader-scopes/ultimateslam/

Would medium Leopold rings work or should I get high rings?  Also, are quick release rings the way to go?  Is primer crude really a problem that I need to remove the scope?  I do not use water to clean the rifle so I am not sue if quick release rings will help.  Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Chris

[guntercb]

Busta,

Thanks for your reply.  That really clears up alot.

Cheers,
Chris

[Busta]

Today is your lucky day, I have a NIB 3-9x40 Leupold Ultimate Slam SABR scope in my gun room. I also have a NIB Sidekick w/scope rail and hammer spur extension. I ALSO have some NIB Medium Warne QD rings. Give me some time, and I'll get back here to let you know if it will all work out. That scope is going on one of my Knights, but if I like it, a few more of my rifles like the Sidekick will be wearing one too.

[quickdtoo]

Ya can't beat that for help!!!

Tim

[guntercb]

Today is your lucky day, I have a NIB 3-9x40 Leupold Ultimate Slam SABR scope in my gun room. I also have a NIB Sidekick w/scope rail and hammer spur extension. I ALSO have some NIB Medium Warne QD rings. Give me some time, and I'll get back here to let you know if it will all work out. That scope is going on one of my Knights, but if I like it, a few more of my rifles like the Sidekick will be wearing one too.

Busta,

I can give you all the time you need.  I am going to go ahead and order the H&R rail and hammer spur.  I will wait before I order any rings.  Do you like the Warne QD rings?  I don't intend to switch the scope to any other guns; however, some say it makes cleaning the primer crude easier.  Do you agree? 

Thanks a million.  This is only the second gun I have ever scoped myself.  So I am still learning.  I really like my Sidekick and the accuracy, I am surprised more people don't have one! 

Cheers,
Chris

[Busta]

guntercb,

I was able to check that out for you, but I think you will actually want low rings. That is the beauty of Leupolds smaller diameter eyepiece/lock ring/power ring. The medium Warnes are .360" actual (.375" on Warnes site) from the base to tube, the low Warnes are .250" from base to tube. I have right at .200" of room between the hammer spur/hammer spur extension and the eyepiece lock ring. Lows would sit .110" lower and still leave about .080" to .090" of space between the hammer and scope. You would have to move your rear sight down the ramp some, or just remove it. You could sight the rear sight in and mark it on the ramp, then if ever a problem with the scope in the field you just move the rear sight blade back up into position after removing the scope. In the pictures you will notice the room, these are medium Warne rings, but Warne makes the Leupold rings for them and I believe they are the same heights. I really like the Warne rings, but the Leupolds are just as solid. You make that decision, you can't go wrong either way. I will order low rings soon, and that Utimate slam might just go back on the Sidekick.

Here are some pics, sorry about the fuzz and shadows, but I think you will be able to see what I am talking about. Remember these are mediums, and lows will work for sure if your scope eye relief is comparable to mine and you don't mind sliding your rear sight down the ramp. My rear sight is set just a hair above the center line in that pic, there would be plenty of room to just mark it (once sighted in) then just slide it down until it is needed.











Warne QD Rings.
http://www.warnescopemounts.com/quick_detach.html

Leupold QRW Rings.
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-shooting/products/mounting-systems-and-accessories/mounting-systems/qrw-mounts/

[guntercb]

guntercb,

I was able to check that out for you

Busta,

Wow!  Not only did you check it out for me, but I get photos too.  You the man!  Thanks. 

What is the advantage of having the scope sitting closer to the barrel?  Does it make that big of a difference?  I am kind of leaning towards getting the medium Warne and I know they will fit. 

If I never want to remove the scope, should I still get quick release?

Thanks,
Chris

[Busta]

The advantage is it puts the line of sight closer to the line of the bore. IIRC these scopes only have 65 MOA, compared to the Nikon Omega which I think has 80 MOA of adjustment. Not really a big deal in this case because I went to bore sight it and it was darn near perfect. It would be on paper if I would choose to use the mediums that are on there now, but I will get lows. I just didn't know if I was going to mount this Leupy on the Sidekick, but I think that is where it will go and I'll get another for my new Knight .45 cal Disc Elite Sniper. I plan on using the Knight with some real light bullets for woodchucks and varmints during the summer, and the new Hornady bullets for deer in the fall.

I plan on doing some down sizing on my muzzleloader collection this year, once I get everything all figured out which ones I'm going to keep. Who am I kidding.

You sure don't need the Quick Detatch, the Warne Fixed Rings or Leupold PRW Rings work just fine if that is what you prefer. These are much less expensive and can be removed fairly easily with the supplied L-Shaped Torx wrench.

http://www.warnescopemounts.com/fixed_rings.html

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-shooting/products/mounting-systems-and-accessories/mounting-systems/prw-rings/

[guntercb]

Busta,

Happy New Years!  Downsize you muzzleloader collection?  Yeah, I wouldn't do that...  (-:

Thanks for the info on the fixed rings.  I think I will go with them first.  I will probably also get the mediums, but understand that having the line of sight closer to the bore is better, but .110" lower does it make that big of a difference?  I am going to do a Goggle search (in my free time may be awhile) and see how much it really matters.  I might even pull out my Geometry book and do some calcs.  Who am I kidding, I am lucky to just find time to mount my scope much less get to the range. 

Good luck shooting the woodchucks and varmints, that sounds like fun.  I would like to try it one day.  I am just hoping to get my ML set up with the scope for some longer shot options next season.  With my iron sights I don't feel comfortable beyond 75 yards, but with a scope and a little practice I think I will feel comfortable beyond 100 yards. 

Happy New Years,
Chris