model 12 question

[Elijah Gunn]

I have my grandfathers old model 12. It's a 12 ga. made in 1938 with a full choke barrel. It can only hold 3 rounds, 1 chambered with 2 in the mag. I think it has a plug in the magazine that limits it to only 2 rounds. My question is how many rounds will  the mag hold if the plug is removed,and how do you take the plug out?
Thanks in advance.

[Carl l.]

I don't know about the plug. The magazine holds 6 and one in the chamber. Carl L.

[Rangr44]

The gun must first be separated (taken down) into a receiver/butt section and a barrel mag tube section, in order to remove the plug.

After it's taken down, the locking pin and the plug stop plate can be removed from the end of the mag tube. (It's easier to work on when taken down, than when together)

The locking pin is removed by depressing the round wire spring in it's side-slot to clear the rolled tip of the spring, then the pin is pulled from the mag tube.

Then, remove the two opposing screws at the end of the mag tube - which will allow the removal of the plug and stop plate to the front.
CAUTION ! The plug/stop parts will be under spring pressure from the mag spring !

.

[Elijah Gunn]

Thanks Carl l , and Ranger44.   I was able to remove the plug as per your instructions. I then loaded up her mag with 5 rounds of Sellier&Belliot double ought buckshot. That was all the mag would hold. A sixth shell almost made it into the mag, but not quite. Maybe those shells are made a little longer than a sporting shell is. Anyway,they all cycled through perfectly, and being able to have 5 in the mag & 1 in the chamber I'm much happier.

[Victor3]

 You might want to check to see if it will handle powerful loads. I have two Mod 12s and IIRC, years ago someone told me that my early one stamped "nickel steel" on the bbl is not recommended for use with heavy modern loads. I never looked into it to see if this was true or not.

[Keith L]

I don't know what you intend to do with that shotgun, but I suspect with the shells you discuss you are likely at best to not be satisfied with that gun with the buckshot, and at worst you could be hurting yourself and wrecking the gun.  It is a classic old shotgun, and while it may work why chance it?  Modern shotguns are not that expensive and will handle high powered loads.  Most even handle the three inch mags.  That Model 12 has earned a spot in the safe, or on the wall.

[Victor3]

I don't know what you intend to do with that shotgun, but I suspect with the shells you discuss you are likely at best to not be satisfied with that gun with the buckshot, and at worst you could be hurting yourself and wrecking the gun.  It is a classic old shotgun, and while it may work why chance it?  Modern shotguns are not that expensive and will handle high powered loads.  Most even handle the three inch mags.  That Model 12 has earned a spot in the safe, or on the wall.

 Well, JMHO, but none of my antique guns are relegated to decorative duty unless they can't be fired safely or happen to be a rare collector item. Most Mod 12s out there don't fall into either these categories.  I shoot both of mine and enjoy them for dove and quail hunting with light loads. Shooting them makes me happy and connects me to a simpler time.

[Keith L]

It doesn't sound like he is going to be quail hunting with 00 buck loads.  And if he has stuffed 3 inch shells into that model 12 he may just be removing his fingers when it blows apart.  If that is the case then he would be better off with it on the wall.

My guess is that his interest is in protection, and a modern shotgun would do him a better job.

[Elijah Gunn]

Thanks for your concern Keith L.   I know what types of shells can be used safely in this gun. I had a gunsmith check it out for me several years ago. He called Winchester and they said...
1. Use only 2 3/4'' shells.
2. Use only lead, or bismuth.
3. NO steel, or tungsten shot.
They even said slugs would be OK, but my gut says no.
The S & B buckshot shells are about 5/16 inch longer than other 12ga. 2 3/4 inch shells that I have. That is why I can't get 6 in the mag. The extra length of the S & B shells is not because they are any kind of a magnum load, in fact they are more of a reduced recoil type of round since the brass is only about 1/2 inch long.
    I plan to use this model 12 for several different things.
 I tried some trap shooting with it and that was fun.
Never been bird hunting yet, but if I get the chance this is the gun I'll use.
Home defense is the reason I wanted to get the plug out of it. I have another shotgun with a shorter barrel that would be for use at very close distances. However, I need the longer range of the model 12 to take care of any feral dogs that need to be removed. www.captaindaves.com/buckshot/dogs.htm . Read some very scary stuff there about the danger of feral dogs packing up.
Thanks again

[Victor3]

 Elijah,

 I don't know that any full-choke shotgun will do well at longer ranges with 00 buck. In my experience, a cylinder bore actually does better with 00 at practical ranges. Your Mod 12 might do OK with it, but check the pattern to see.

 Most go with some kind of a small-bore CF rifle for feral dogs. I wouldn't use a shotgun on them if I had a choice.

 Also, if you have a concern about the type of mass-packing of dogs outlined in your link, get a 10/22, multiple hi-cap mags and a case of hollow-points. A shotgun would appear to be great for such scenarios, but in reality you're only going to (maybe) disable one animal per buckshot round fired under optimal (under 30 yards) conditions. With a .22 LR HP in an auto rifle, odds of a disable go way up, and can be done at longer ranges.

[Elijah Gunn]

I'd love to get a ruger 10/22, but the money just ain't there. My son turns 14 this year, and maybe if we pool our money for his birthday gift along with grandma & grandpa we can get him one. I know he would love it.
I'll check the pattern of the 00 buck at 30 yards and make sure it does what I need it to.
If the 00 does not pattern well, do you think by switching to 0 ,or #4 it would pattern tighter?

[kiddekop]

I have my grandfathers old model 12. It's a 12 ga. made in 1938 with a full choke barrel. It can only hold 3 rounds, 1 chambered with 2 in the mag. I think it has a plug in the magazine that limits it to only 2 rounds. My question is how many rounds will  the mag hold if the plug is removed,and how do you take the plug out?
Thanks in advance.

I'm a Win Mod 12 12g owner DON"T shoot 00 buck thru a full choked barrel unless you don't care what happens with your choke.

[kiddekop]

You might want to check to see if it will handle powerful loads. I have two Mod 12s and IIRC, years ago someone told me that my early one stamped "nickel steel" on the bbl is not recommended for use with heavy modern loads. I never looked into it to see if this was true or not.

FYI my 1924 Win Mod 12 12g has a nickel steel barrel they're the best made, they will handle modern loads, all of my trap shooting friends have them and load Blue Dot or HS6 with 1 1/8,1 1/4or 1 3/8 ounce loads of shot.I used mine with 35.3gr of Win 540(HS6) 1 1/8 & 1 1/4 oz loads of 4's,5's,6's,7 1/2's

[kiddekop]

I don't know what you intend to do with that shotgun, but I suspect with the shells you discuss you are likely at best to not be satisfied with that gun with the buckshot, and at worst you could be hurting yourself and wrecking the gun.  It is a classic old shotgun, and while it may work why chance it?  Modern shotguns are not that expensive and will handle high powered loads.  Most even handle the three inch mags.  That Model 12 has earned a spot in the safe, or on the wall.

Mod 12 duck is chambered for 3 inch shells.My Mod 12 was made in 1924 it's not a wall hanger it was converted to a trapgun by a very competent gs.