45/70 load in my new marlin

[Tad Houston]

Just got a 1895 18" 45/70 for Christmas, and have not shot it yet. Looking at load books the loads are all over the map for the marlin lever gun. Anyone here loading the 350gr speer uni-core for there marlin? It is a pretty tough bullet, and needs a minimum of 1900fps to expand properly. In the Hodgden load magazine there are loads that do about 2000+fps. I was wondering how performance on game is with this bullet?

Thanks, Tad

[BBF]

 Guy, no offense implied, why do you want to endure pain? You don't need those top or close to top loads to shoot whatever you hunt. You are starting with a .45 cal. hole !!

 I would be concerned with the recoil you will get with them though.
My suggestion is to use the Rem 405's Speer 400's or several 300 gr. bullets on the market. Start with the top Trapdoor level and when you feels more need of power or pain go into the Marlin level loads. You could bypass all of his and buy a box of Hornady's LE ammo to get the feel of a "middle" load.

When you are done with all of them use some cast bullets. They have a whole lot of good things to offer.

[Cecil]

the load for my guide gun is 49 grains Hodgdon 4198 with Hornaday 350 gr inter lock shoots good groups recoil is not bad

[BBF]

Looking at the Hdy Manual#7 it shows your load to be 1.6 gr above recommended max for the Marlin.The velocity given is 1900fps from a 22" barrel, yours is 3 1/2 inch less and I presume you could expect a 100 fps loss. That puts the MV below the minimum recommended for the RN. Is that what brought on your question in the first place?  I don't know the minimum MV for the FP( #4503)

To get 2000 fps from a 22" barrel you would need to load close to 50 gr of IMR 4198. There is no listing for H-4198 in that manual for MV above the(1900fps) Marlin level.

[Autorim]

I agree with BBF. IMHO you should start much lower and work up. I also recommend the Sierra 300 or the Remington 405. Any 300-350 grain bullet at 2000fps and over generates pretty stiff recoil. It's fine for hunting, but for practice I recommend something much lower. Also IMHO expansion is not much of an issue with a .45 caliber bullet if you have sufficient penetration.

[Tad Houston]

The loads in the Hodgden magazine for the lever gun are right up there with the 450 Marlin in velocity. They list max pressure for the 1895 at 40,000 CUP. Other books loads for the 1895 top out at around 28,0000 CUP. Seems a big difference. Reading all this stuff makes a guy dizzy! Sounds like recoil will be a problem before pressure is though. I just want my hunting loads plenty stiff- I have seen some BIG boar around these parts.

Thanks for all the input, and keep it coming.

[EsoxLucius]

The .458" 350 grain Speer #2478 is not a UniCor it is a HotCor.  The .458" 300 grain Speer #2482 is a UniCor.  Due to the location of the cannelure, loading the 350 grain Speer in the 45-70 for the Marlin 1895 requires some tricks.  Most either trim cases so it can be crimped into the cannelure and also meet the maximum cartridge length of 2.55" (some have found they will cycle at up to 2.59") OR use a powder that fills the case and is compressed when seating the bullet to 2.55" (no crimp) OR seat to 2.55" and use a moderate crimp over the ogive with a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Marlin 1895 45-70 22" barrel
350 grain Speer seated to 2.59" (top ring above the cannelure) and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die
Starline brass, 2.1" trim
CCI 200 primers
52.0 grains H4198 maximum
2147 fps

350 grain Speer

[BBF]

I understand your concern with the large porkers. The beauty with the 45-70 or similar large caliber cartridges is that you don't need all the much velocity.
In the kinetic equation for energy the velocity is the largest part and in smaller cal it is needed to generate some decent ftlb's. When you start hurling 300 to 500 gr. of bullet, the mass takes on a significant role. Now that I have run out of fancy terms, here is what it boils down to:
 Bullets in the 350 to 400+ gr weight do not need to fly very fast to do to a number on a boar or anything else.
 If you send a 400 grainer at 1400 to 1600 fps MV to one of those walking porkchops it will kill it if you do your part and put it in the right spot.

If those bullets were to be hard cast they would probably penetrate and kill two hogs side by side without a problem.

BTW be careful if you use that 350 gr Speer bullet as mentioned above. I loaded some for the 450 Marlin and found out that they chamber ok even from the magazine but when you try to unload a unfired round you run into trouble big time. The round will not clear the ejection port. You can't remove the bolt without getting at the bolt stop which is hidden by the round. Short of tapping the bullet back into the case while the round is chambered    you have two other choices.
Firing off the round  is the simplest way if you are in a place you can do this. I wasn't in the position to do that so I had to disengage the extractor from the cartridge.

[Tad Houston]

Great stuff, thanks guys!

[Coyote Hunter]

Tad -

If you're interested, send me an email and Ill send you my reloading spreadsheets - about 250 manufacturer loads for th e.45-70, my chrono and target data and data on the 18 or 19 .45-70 loads I use, which range from very mild to shoulder busters.

I agree with jackfish on all counts - the Speer 350g requires special consideration as it was not designed for th e.45-70 but rather the .458 Win.  I load it and like it, however.

Depending on your needs you may find the 300g Speer Uni-Cor HP (same bullet loaded by Federal but they wrongly call it a Hot-Cor) or the Nosler Partition to be your best choice.  The 350g A-Frame is designed for Marlins and will be easier to load than the Speer 350g.

My hunting load is a 350g North Fork pushed to 2183fps.  This is easily the most consistently consistent load I have ever developed, and very accurate.  It has been pressure tested and found to be between the old PMC and Buffalo Bore loads in terms of pressure.  Care needs to be taken when working up to the load, however, as every rifle will be different.