Author Topic: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper  (Read 832 times)

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Offline Caffeine

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New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« on: January 11, 2009, 06:46:42 AM »
Howdy ALL!!

We've had this gun in the family for some time and I took physical possession last night! My dad and I are going to do some varmint blasting in the near future and this will be my little slice of heaven, sort of speak. I haven't shot it in a while, but I will practice this week.

Specs (that I know):
Serial: AY
158 Topper
Redfield 2x
Looks like the standard Scope base from FAQ


I know the pictures aren't that great, but I figured the gurus could tell me a bit more about this gun. I've read the FAQ and 5 pages worth of threads searching for "hornet." I'm still confused about a few things;

1. What kind of scope can I use without modifications to the hammer? I may be off-base as I'm pretty confused about the hammer stuff.

2. If this weapon is "sort of" accurate out to 200yds. and most of my shots will hopefully be less than 150 yds. What do you recommend for max power of scope? I figure a 1600000m sniper scope isn't going to do me much good, but it would sure look cool!  ;D

3. Where do you guys get the stock sleeves for rounds? I sew for a side business and I'd like to make one as my second project after I make a new sling.

4. If this is a "pallet" stock I'd like to paint the whole thing a matte black. I like the "tiger stripe" blue on the receiver, but I think a matte black is the way to go. Opinions, comments would the gurus or "handiholics" disapprove?

Thats all for now, I thought I'd say hello and congratulate you all on a nice forum!

Mike



Offline quickdtoo

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2009, 07:10:20 AM »
Welcome aboard Mike!! ;)

It looks like it has a Weaver #82 scope base which isn't friendly to mounting scopes on H&Rs due to the flat spot at the rear that puts the rear ring an inch farther forward that it needs to be, it also appears to have an aftermarket hammer extension like the Carlson that doesn't fit well, sits on the very end of the hammer spur as opposed to the factory extension(Uncle Mike's) that slips down over the spur much further.

When choosing a scope, look for one with a small power ring/ocular bell, that's the critical area for hammer interference, those with large power rings usually require high rings, sometime extra high. One of the most popular scopes that won't break the bank is the Mueller APV, at $115 shipped with sunshade, it's hard to beat.

Cartridge carriers are available at most sporting goods stores, they're made of neoprene or nylon, I prefer the neoprene style myself, the nylon is noisy. You'll likely have to do some sewing to make it work for the Hornet.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,147365.msg1098606264.html#msg1098606264

The stripes on the frames are the result of color case hardening, typical on cast iron frames. There are numerous stock finishing options in the FAQs under Painting and Refinishing your Handi.

Tim




"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline tallyho

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2009, 09:47:23 AM »
Hey Mike,
Welcome to GBO, and welcome to the "Topper" club.  (unofficial designation I just made up for the folks who have Toppers)  ;D You have a great little rifle there. Tim answered most of your questions (he's the resident question answerer here ;)) and there are other's who have experience and knowledge and will be as supportive.

Mine is a 30/30 (see my avatar to the left and pics below) with a lovely bit of case hardening on the receiver (what you called tiger stripe). I have an older Weaver K-3 and as you an tell, it is a scope that doesn't interfere with the hammer (and it has always been a bit of a challenge to 'scope a Topper).





Personally, I would not paint an original Topper stock. In fact if you are so inclined I'd trade an actual"pallet wood" stock to you in return for your Topper stock. I'd like to put an original stock on my 30/30 which presently wears an acceptable stock, but non-original. If this interests you PM me.

And again, welcome to the site. It is the best site on the planet (maybe the universe) for Handi info.

Cheers
Kerry

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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2009, 10:02:32 AM »
My first Handi was a Topper 158 in 22 Hornet- it looked very similar to yours. I traded it off for a Remington 788 - but that is another story. I can not add much to what Tim has said about your rifle and scope mounting suggestions. The Mueller APV is a very nice scope - I have 3 of them. It has more power than you really need, you could get by just fine with a 3X - 9X. Just make sure the eye piece bell as small as possible to be able to mount the scope low (with out hitting the hammer) and that you get the best scope you can afford. You will not be sorry you did. You may have to experiment a little to find a good combination of scope, rings and mount. If you have a dealer near by that will let you experiment a little, you can find a combination that will work great.  BTW - Welcome aboard and Good Luck, Good Shooting to you.
Great men have vision and resolve to make dreams come true.

Offline Caffeine

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2009, 10:07:27 AM »
Hey Tim & Kerry

Thanks for the welcome. You are right Tim, I went and took a closer look at the scope base and it says Weaver on the rings... does that mean its a weaver mount? I was just counting the gaps along the rail and comparing that to the pictures posted in the FAQ. Do you think I'll be able to mount a Mueller to the gun as it is now? or will I need a new base? I should also mention that it looks like the base was machined to create space for the aft flip-up iron sight.

I haven't shot this gun since I was 16 or so (I just turned 30) and I don't remember any problems with it. Does the hammer need to be re-done? I guess I'll find out when I go shooting this week.

Kerry, let me marinate on the trade. I'm incredibly busy with work so the painting wasn't going to happen right away anyway. If I do paint it, you'll be the first person I talk to.  

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2009, 10:18:23 AM »
The Hammer Spur looks like it is setting rather high. I do not know if you can move it down or not. If not then get a standard H&R hammer spur, they will actually go down on the hammer enough to see the hammer sticking out the end a little. You can get them from various places including H&R. Weaver on the rings does not mean that is what the base is. It is a Weaver style base in that it has cross slots on it. Anybody's rings will fit as long as they are Weaver style. If the slots on your mount do not line up for a good scope positioning, you can always cut a slot in the base with a file. I have done this. I take a medium size mill file and turn it up on edge and cut a new slot. Give it a new paint job and once you mount the rings you can not tell it was a home made job. I always try to have one of the rings in a factory slot, either front or back so that there is not going to be any front to back play in the rings.
Great men have vision and resolve to make dreams come true.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2009, 11:05:27 AM »
Mike,

Just so we aren't confused by terminology, hammer spur is the knurled part of the actual hammer, hammer extension is the part that attaches to the hammer spur. As I stated originally, the factory hammer extension fits lower on the hammer spur providing more room for scope clearance, but you can remove a little from the offending hammer spur to make clearance to allow the use of medium rings, this is all covered in the FAQs and Help sticky tho as are the differences in the Weaver #82 base that appears to be on your rifle. It doesn't help much cutting additional cross slots in the Weaver #82 if the rear ring can't be moved back further which was my point about the Weaver #82, there are several mount options listed in the FAQs along with sources, just scroll down the page until you see the pics.  ;) SInce you probably want the factory style hammer extension, it comes with the factory rail, I notices yesterday that Bud's sells it for $15 plus shipping which may be less than anywhere else depending on how much the want for shipping.

Tim

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Caffeine

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2009, 11:26:31 AM »
Awesome, thanks Tim. For newbies like me, having this explained is beneficial. I read the FAQ last night for about three hours. I didn't "get it", and now I do, Thanks.

Mike

Offline tallyho

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2009, 11:27:41 AM »
Mike, no worries about any kind of stock trade at the moment, just thought I'd make the suggestion/offer.

And I had another thought about Toppers and scopes pop into my mind, triggered by LaOtto's posting. Often the clamp-on extensions (set screw inside) can be inverted (so that the thicker part of the clamp is under the hammer) allowing a bit more scope clearance, but doing that may cause it to hang up on the barrel release latch when being cocked. This will prevent the hammer from falling when the trigger is pulled. I had this problem with the very first Topper I had, and my solution was to grind a significant bit off the latch and grind more off the lower part of the hammer extension until it slipped by the latch. In addition, as Tim points out, it is sometimes necessary to remove material from the upper part of the extension to allow enough clearance to avoid hitting the scope bell as well. I considered all the grinding and fussing to be a workable, but ugly looking solution, but not something I was completely happy with.

With my current Topper I also had these clearance problems, but grinding up everything was not an option for me because this one is in such great (like new) condition.

I will point out here that if I had chosen to go with a Monte Carlo stock and a higher mounted scope there would have been fewer problems, but I like to 'snuggle into' my stock so I wanted the scope mounted as low as possible. So after messing around with various possible solutions (and deciding finally that I'd just have to use a receiver sight instead of a scope) Tim introduced me to the set-up I have now.

He said to get another Topper hammer (I got mine from Tim, and I believe he got it from Numrich Gun Parts http://www.e-gunparts.com/search_beta.asp - just put Harrington & Richardson 158 in the search box). He had drilled and tapped the hammer for a (?) Winchester (?) screw-in hammer extension (Tim will no doubt correct this if I'm mistaken). You will notice that it is a brass (coated) hammer, and you can use one like this, or a regular steel hammer, just make sure it is a hammer for the Topper since it is different than hammers on the newer guns.

This is what it looks like: BTW, many of the marks you see on the scope is where the previous hammer extension set-up struck the scope when firing.. or more often, when mis-firing because some of the energy of the hammer strike was expended on the scope bell rather than the firing pin! (I never realized how dinged up it is on the end of the bell until I saw these pics - I must tidy that up!)  ???

Cheers
Kerry

Pic 1 is hammer down, pic 2 is hammer cocked





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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2009, 11:38:21 AM »
The hammer extension Kerry referred to is for the M94 Winchester which is threaded 4-48, that's covered in the FAQs under Low Profile Hammer Mods part 1, it's also the style that H&R is considering changing to along with a lower profile hammer as use to be offered from the original H&R on some of their rifles, I sent pics to my H&R/Remington contact for further assessment.  ;D

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline buckslayer

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2009, 11:43:57 AM »
thanks for being so active tim, and for keeping in touch with H&R about improvements, i really appreciate your time you put into it!  an improved lower hammer would be awesome.
I've got to many but never enough!!!! :eek:

Offline tallyho

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2009, 11:50:26 AM »
thanks for being so active tim, and for keeping in touch with H&R about improvements, i really appreciate your time you put into it!  an improved lower hammer would be awesome.

[img width= height= alt=" border="0]http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/Themes/babylon/images/post/thumbup.gif[/img] [img width= height= alt=" border="0]http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/Themes/babylon/images/post/thumbup.gif[/img] [img width= height= alt=" border="0]http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/Themes/babylon/images/post/thumbup.gif[/img]

Tim's da man...

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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2009, 11:53:42 AM »
Thanks, but it's selfish motivation, feeding the addiction!!!  ;D

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline tallyho

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2009, 12:16:34 PM »
Thanks, but it's selfish motivation, feeding the addiction!!!  ;D

Tim

I know... My name is Kerry and I'm a Handiholi;D

Luckily nobody has created HA (Handiholics Anonymous) - but even if they had  I wouldn't join!
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: New Guy .22 Hornet 158 Topper
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2009, 12:22:51 PM »
Yeah, who would want to be cured!!! ::) ;D
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain