Reloading for survival

[kid_couteau]

Hi All

I have been doing some research on using reduced loads in one rifle to allow a larger range of game to be taken with it.

I am focusing mainly on two Handi rifles.  One in .223 Remington the other in .30-30 Winchester.

I would like your advice on the range of animals that could be taken with these two rifles using different loads.

For the 223 I have only a few loads

55 grain FMJ with 6 grains of Unique powder for small game
21 grains of Reloader 7 with 55 grain SP for medium game

Also have 64 grain power point bullets but no charge info as of yet

With the 30-30 I can use the following

10 grains of Unique with a 90 grain plinker

223 in a sabot ( I dont have the charge info for this at work but the bullet just zips)

And a few other loads I cant remember right now gotta learn to carry my load data with me at all times.  Think of it BOLD (Bug Out Load Data)

I realize it is not a good practice but is it feasible in a survival situation to take deer with 223

Thank you
Kid

[Almtnman]

If you're a good shot. I know of several deer that have been taken with a 22 rifle and one Black Bear that was killed with a 22 rifle. The Black Bear is mounted and on display in my local community center.

It's a good practice to carry reduced loads for any rifle you hunt with. You might be on a deer hunt and that reduced load for the old 30-06 or 270 or any other rifle you carry would come in handy if you wanted to take a squirrel or rabbit for the meat pot back at camp. There's some authorities that say not to use reduced loads, but having 3 or 4 in your hunting coat pocket could come in mighty handy at times like I mention.

[jbtazgrabber]

i know that for years i hunted tree rats with a 30 30 lever gun untill i got my first 357 h&r then it took over....my 22 rimfire has not seen daylight for 15 years.....the load i used was 183 gr.lead flat nose bullet with about 7 gr, red dot powder....shot 158 gr, simi wadcutter in the mag. killled avery kind of critter around if it was under 50 yards.....i mean every kind....at the time 12 years ago it was cheaper than 22  bullets.... the lead bullts with a gas check could also be shot with normal 30 30 powder at factory speeds with good to great groups....becarefull when shooting rats and rabbits with big bullets.......a head shot is mandatory.....if you are a little off it can be a big mess.......the only other thing i remember is that when i used the mag 4 tree rats the rats were a little fater on the backside of the tree than with a 22.....lol....now i just use a pellet gun just as much fun about the same deel head shots or nothing.....also i never missed a deer with the lever gun or h&r when it came deer season in those earlier years........i wonder why......jb

[willysjeep134]

What always bugged me about reduced loads was that the sights would be off. One day I loaded up a bunch of plinking ammo with 100gr Speer Plinkers for my 30-30. I was using a Unique load put out by Lyman. The loads were so close to point of aim that I just tweaked them a little. Now without changing my sights I can shoot with a maximum point blank range of 175 yards with 170gr full speed ammo, and dead on at fifty yards with a load that comes pretty close to .32-20.

What I would say is  use a light enough bullet and a powder with a wide acceptable charge range. Make a few batches of ammo with different powder charges and see how close you can come to point of aim at a given yardage. Always use published data of course.

[lefty red]

I like the littlest amount of "ball and powder" to be used, so I would go with the .223.

LEE does a special run of 22 molds, I just picked one up from MIDSOUTH, and I can use the same light load of pistol powder, UNIVERSAL, REDDOT, for the load.

The 30/30 is great one alos, but I get .223 brass from work and anything I wanted to take I could with the .223.

LEFTY

[jbtazgrabber]

a fellow member here has a reloading sight ....steves reloading pages....might help on 63 gr. bullets...4 the 223    ........also i forgot to mention before a old fried that past on 10 years ago used 309.dia round ball with a little red dot in his 3030 single shot woth good results.........he never resized his brass just knocked out primer  and put in another new primer and taped in a round ball after putting in his powder.....had a bullet holder that had a hole in the bottem so the bullet couldnt go off when loading.........seen him kill a deer at 50 yards with a 430 round ball fron a 44 h&r sigle rifle<it had a little more powder than did his rabbit load....>...jb

[lefty red]

Round Balls are a great small game getter in larger calibers.  I also like them cause I can cast RBs from WWs and not lead and save my lead for the MLs.

Junior and Dennis over at THE FRUGAL OUTDOORSMAN , www.castbullet.com , has a great article on loading RBs in the 30/30s.

LEFTY

[teamnelson]

Had a question, did a search and found this thread ... but its not quite what I was hoping for.

I would like to consolidate guns/ammo/reloading down to the minimum number of caliber(s). Yep, I will still have 22 covered. But the ever controversial ideal of one or two other guns, say handgun and rifle, in the same caliber, then load up or down for different purposes. Preferably one type of powder used for all applications. Not looking to both silently drop a tree rat at 10 paces, then drop an elk at 700 yds with the same. Shying away from calibers that prefer optics as they break, need to be BZO'd, etc. I like simple, bomb proof actions with few moving parts, especially springs. I'm one of the many who have been in combat a few times in the last few years and know how finicky modern weapons systems are so in a EOTWAWKI situation, I don't plan to trust the life of my family to just anything. And I definitely don't want to burden them with something that requires my presence to operate, reload for or fix.

What are your thoughts? Calibers, weapons, loads are specifically what I'm interested in.

Thanks,
Chaps

[Westbound]

As far as the guns themselves go, I think you couldn't go wrong with a single shot rifle and a pump shotgun.  If i could keep my 22lr in the mix as well i would feel like I had all bases covered.

Shotgun ammo is rather bulky and heavy, but a wide range of game could be taken with various loads, and as a self defense weapon I would take my pump over just about any rifle configuration I could think of.

I'm laying in a stock of ammo for my shotgun, my 22lr, and my 45-70.  I'm about to add a 270 rifle to the mix.  The 270 can be loaded from 90gr bullets (for small game) up to 160 noslers (for much bigger critters)
With these guns, any edible critter in north america could be on the dinner table.

[Graybeard]

Had a question, did a search and found this thread ... but its not quite what I was hoping for.

I would like to consolidate guns/ammo/reloading down to the minimum number of caliber(s). Yep, I will still have 22 covered. But the ever controversial ideal of one or two other guns, say handgun and rifle, in the same caliber, then load up or down for different purposes. Preferably one type of powder used for all applications. Not looking to both silently drop a tree rat at 10 paces, then drop an elk at 700 yds with the same. Shying away from calibers that prefer optics as they break, need to be BZO'd, etc. I like simple, bomb proof actions with few moving parts, especially springs. I'm one of the many who have been in combat a few times in the last few years and know how finicky modern weapons systems are so in a EOTWAWKI situation, I don't plan to trust the life of my family to just anything. And I definitely don't want to burden them with something that requires my presence to operate, reload for or fix.

What are your thoughts? Calibers, weapons, loads are specifically what I'm interested in.

Thanks,
Chaps

The .357 Mag would be my choice as a single caliber round for such as you mention. You can get a revolver which is as simple as handguns get an either a lever rifle or single shot as you wish as a companion piece. If you just gotta have multiple rounds you can have some .38s on hand as well. I'm of the opinion that if you are trying to keep it simple tho having one load is the proper way to do that. Different loads shoot to different points of impact generally and there is absolutely no way to have multiple loads that hit to same POI at a variety of ranges one maybe but not at several.

So chose a hard cast load up to the heaviest chore you'll ask of it and make do. How much more simple can it get. A cast bullet of 158-180 grains would do just fine.

[351 power]

i've had good loads with the 64g pp  and 25.5g of reloder 15

[dpe.ahoy]

Bill has hit the nail on the head with the 357.  For survival, would be hard to beat, wouldn't want to try to stop a charging moose or grizzley, but with a good hardcast heavy bullet, would take a moose or an elk if with in 75 yards or so with heart, lung shot.  It covers alot of ground in a small case.  DP