Rifled Howizter

[Artilleryman]

Does anyone have any information about rifled howizters?

[cannonmn]

Can you be more specific?  Dahlgren designed rifled boat howitzers, both steel and bronze, but I'm not sure that's what you want.  At least during the Civil War, the Dahlgren designs are the only rifled howitzers I can think of, that were officially known as "rifled howitzers." 

There were other pieces (mostly confederate) called "mountain rifles' that may have had the same barrel length in calibers as the Dahlgren, but I don't have measurements in front of me.

Dahlgren took one unbored light 12-pounder boat howitzer, then bored and rifled it as a 7-pounder bronze rifle.

[Artilleryman]

Thanks for the reply.  I left it very general to see what information would come from it.  I am interested in any muzzle loading rifled howizter that was in use before or during the Civil War.  There are some so called Pack Parrotts that some people are calling rifled howizters.  As far as I know these guns only existed on paper and never were put into production.  In my opinion if they did exist they should be classified as mountain rifles. 

[cannonmn]

Probably if you are going to be dealing with NSSA or some other group, would be best to use a "recognized" definition for howitzer that can be documented from Army pubs or something, otherwise someone with an agenda will always be able to pick you definition apart.  I don't have it handy but I'm sure we can find something in the Ordnance Manual or other pub they'd respect, that defines a howitzer as a cannon having a barrel, let's say 5-8 calibers long, as opposed to a mortar which had less and a gun which had more.  I've seen such "official" definitions, just can't find 'em at the moment.  At least get agreement upfront on the technical definition of "howitzer" to be used, using some easily-measurable characteristics, or any other agreement will be unreachable.

I tend to think the US Army defined "howitzer" as a smoothbore cannon within certain caliber-length criteria, as well as being chambered, and only the Navy had its rifled boat howitzers.

[Artilleryman]

I think you have put me on the right track in terms of looking for a definition.  Thanks

[navygunner]

The "pack Parrott" was never accepted by the army but at least a couple militia units out of NY had them purchased with State funds.

NG

[guardsgunner]

navygunner,
  Do you have a source for that info.  I would like to take a look at it .
Thanks

RCHJr.

[Artilleryman]

I would to.

[navygunner]

Last year I was looking at the "packs" I contacted http://www.cannonsonline.com/index.htm and asked about them. I can't remember who it was that responded but he had the NY info. If you care to call.

geo

[Cannoneer]

navygunner,

 If the man you spoke to was very personable, and seemed like he would gladly spend half the day discussing ordnance, then it was probably Forrest Taylor you were talking to.

[cannonmn]

Suggest whomever you ask, make sure you get a specific reference you can check, otherwise the info is limited to rumor status.

[shooter2]

My latest edition of 'The Artilleryman Magazine' Volume 30 No 1 has an article on New York City's 3.3 Inch Parrotts.  The gist of it was the rifles were supplied to militias raised by some affluent members of NY society.  There are 8 surviving examples.  Apparently references and footnotes are available but were not published with the article.

[cannonmn]

The source of the info on the 3.3's was actually me, I discovered a letter from Parrott to Ripley (Chief of Ordnance) dated May 11 1861 in the Records of the Ordnance Department, National Archives, Wash DC. , ca. 1985.  I sent letters to Ed Olmstead about it and he put the info in his next book.  The 3.3's were ordered directly from West Point Foundry by the "Union Committee of New York."  The 3.3's were all made with lengths similar to the 2.9-inch Parrott rifles and don't have anything to do with the very short "pack Parrott" drawings discussed in other posts here.

[cannonmn]

Here's some info I've had on microfilm for a long time but didn't remember until now.  This comes from lists of miscellaneous guns that were at the Philadelphia Navy Yard in 1870's.  Many of the strange, nonstandard guns listed were captured Confederate items, both those made or modified in the South, or those imported by the Confederacy.  Here's a record showing a group of apparently identical 2.9-inch rifled cast-iron mountain howitzers, weighing 269 lbs. each.  The second image is just a tighter shot of the first.