Author Topic: .243 & berger vld's on deer  (Read 2237 times)

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Offline Marlin444

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.243 & berger vld's on deer
« on: April 21, 2011, 05:28:39 PM »
Anyone use .243 vld's on deer ? Are these long range bullets only ? Most of my shots are under 200 yrds.Right now I'm using barnes 85 gr. x bullets, in my boys .243

Offline Ethan

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Re: .243 & berger vld's on deer
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2011, 05:27:00 PM »
VLD's should work fine although the Barnes is awesome bullet. I use VLD's out of my 257 weatherby mag.
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Offline 243dave

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Re: .243 & berger vld's on deer
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 05:06:10 AM »
Berger bullets make what they call a hunting bullet.  I have read where people love them for long range hunting but there are some things to consider.  The first is what twist rifling does your barrel have.  Standard twist in most factory barrels are 1-10, remington is 1-9 1/8, savage I believe is 1-9 1/2 twist.   The second is magazine length.  Bergers 95gr vld recomends a 1-9 or faster twist(these may work fine in a factory barrel), the 105 grainers need a 1-8 and the 115's need a 1-7 twist.  Usually people report that the VLD's shoot more accurately when loaded long against the rifling in the barrel and this has been my experience too but I have only shot them in only one gun and of course all guns are different so they my shot fine when loaded the normal OAL.  The problem with loading them long is they are too long to fit in the magazine.  These are a couple things to consider before spending money but if you have the proper twist give them a whirl and let us know how they do, just keep in mind they make a hunting VLD and a target VLD and get the right ones.  Heres a link to berger showing their hunting VLD's. 
Dave
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Hunting%20Bullets.html

Offline nomosendero

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Re: .243 & berger vld's on deer
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 03:19:53 PM »
For a long time most folks thought these bullets have to be seated "long", jamming the rifling or very close. That has worked well for me MOST of the time, but certainly not all the time. I had a M700VS that shot them well at mag length & that rifle had a Weatherbyish jump. Here is what Berger says:

"  It was determined that they were dropping points late in the matches due to recoil fatigue.  Bill Davis and Dr. Lou Palmisano were asked to design a bullet and case combination that shot flatter than the 308 case and 168 gr bullets the team was using at the time.  After a design was created Walt Berger was approached to make the bullet.  The 6mm 105 gr VLD was born and shot by the US 300 Meter Shooting Team using a 2” PPC (modified 220 Swift).  This combination shot with less felt recoil and a flatter trajectory than the 308 case using the 168 gr bullet and higher scores were the end result.  This successful bullet design soon found its way into all long range target competition and the VLD shape spread into all other calibers.

The VLD bullet design is a combination of two very specific features.  The first is a boat tail which is common on long and heavy bullets.   The second and most important design feature is the long secant ogive.  It is this ogive shape that allows the bullet to experience less drag as it flies to the target.  This reduced drag is how the VLD shoots flatter and is less affected by wind (less drift) than other bullets.  Reduced drag also translates into higher retained velocity.  These are important results if you want your bullet to help improve your accuracy by requiring less sight adjustments when conditions change.

For years we have relayed that it is best to jam the VLD into the lands for best performance.  This works for many rifles however there are many rifles that do not shoot the VLD well when the bullet is jammed.  We have learned that the VLD can shoot best as much as .150 jump off the rifling.  VLD bullets can be sensitive to seating depth and it has been found that these bullets shoot best in a COAL “sweet spot”.  This sweet spot is a COAL range that is usually .030 to .040 wide. 

The quickest way to find this sweet spot is to load ammo at four different COAL.  Start with a COAL that allows the bullet to touch the rifling.  The next COAL needs to be .040 off the lands.  The third COAL needs to be .080 off the lands.  The last COAL needs to be .120 off the lands.  One of these COAL will outperform the other three by a considerable margin.  It has been reported that the VLD bullets don’t group as well at 100 yards but get better as the bullet “goes to sleep” at further ranges.  We have learned that by doing the four COAL test you will find a COAL where the VLD bullets will group well at 100 yards.  Once the COAL that shoots best is established you can tweak +/- .005 or .010 to increase precision or you can adjust powder charges and other load variables.  Frankly, those who do the four COAL test usually are happy with the results they get from this test alone."

 
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Offline roper

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Re: .243 & berger vld's on deer
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2011, 01:07:12 AM »
Here is something from Berger bullets

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith
Berger Bullets