long distance 6.5x55 reloads

[buckfever 1]

I have had really good shooting with a 120 grn. Barnes TSX for my Tikka T-3.  Has anyone safely pushed this caliber for distance, like 350 yds.  My firearm is my most accurate firearm and I would like to try to push it out in distance and see if the accuracy stays.  Currently shooting 47 grns of RL-19 for a very accurate load.  Remember viewers this works in my firearm and I am not reccomending it for someone else.  You have to do your ouwn testing so see if the firearm likes it and any pressure signs, sticky bolts ect.  Anybody have a powders they like?

I also have a 30-06 in a Tikka T-3 and wondered if I should try it first?   Maybe 150 grn and so on.  Need a 300 yd. accurate and fairly flat shot for Canada deer.  I shoot at a range where I shoot routinely at 200 plus ranges and have targets at 300yd.  Thanks for the help.  Naturally I reload.  Buckfever

[41 mag]

When I bought one of the reconditioned Sweeds years ago for my daughter I tried several different bullet weight. I settled on the 140gr Hornady A-Max. This was when it first hit eh market. I called Hornady and they did not recommend it for hunting. Well I tried it out anyway as we have feral hogs which provide a great test bast for handloads.

I found that at the velocities I was pushing them, around 2650fps, out to 350 yards they would reliably hold together and droped those hogs great. My daughter has used them on several deer as well at ranges from 20yds to out around 250 yards with equal success.

If I were you and looking to stretch things out nowdays, I would look at the Accubond's, as well as possibly the Berger or Barnes TTSX. They would allow you to run top end loads from your modern rifles and should reliably do the job on your intended targets.

With the 06' I might go up to a 168gr for the Bergers, and probably stick to the 165gr range for the others. What you want is the best of both velocity and penetration, which with those bullets you should easily be able to get.

[Davemuzz]

This past year (2008) I "built" on a new Savage action (Stainless short action, bolt, single shot, small shank) a rifle. I put a laminated stock on it, and had Shilen make me a stainless barrel with a 1-9 twist in 6.5x55 Swede. Now, I know your thinking the Swede is a long action caliber...which it is...but it will "just fit" on a short action bolt "action". (Barely...but it will).

During my load work ups, I was shooting Berger 140 gr. VLD's. using RL-22. Berger sent me load information which stated the maximum load for the 140gr. VLD was 46.4, and this was suppose to give me a bit over 2700fps velocity. Well, I wanted to achieve that "magic" 2700fps velocity...but the 46.4 was well short of that. So, I continued to "add more powder" until I got to 48gr. of RL-22. This gave me a fairly consistent velocity of 2725fps, and it actually shrank my 100 yard groups to cloverleafs!! Also, I have no pressure signs with this load.

Now, I would advise anyone who is going to go over the "stated maximum" of loads to do this carefully. Your guns chamber may be tighter than mine is and this can cause substantial pressure differences. Watch for signs of split cases, and necks, blown primers 'n such.

Dave

[BBF]

 I don't understand your question. Reading your post I get the impression you don't think your present load with the Barnes  reaches out to 350 yards. Really??

The same for the 30-06. Any 150 to 165 gr. factory Spitzer FB's or BT will get there.As an example The Speer 150 gr BT sent on the way at 2850 fps
  YARDS:    50       100       200         250          300
             +1.3"     +1.6"     +2.5"          X         - 4.1"

 What would help if you write the ftlb or the zero setting and holdover you are willing to settle for.
Canadian deer aren't any more bullet proof then those around your area, although they might be bigger.

[Davemuzz]

Well...here is the comparison that I think tells the story when you compare the 30 caliber bullet, be it fired from an '-06 or a .308 or whatever, to the 6.5 bullet fired from the Swede, or whatever.

I took the 6.5 Hornady SST bullet and the 30 cal. Hornady SST bullet and ran them through the Hornady Ballistic calculator that is on the Hornady web site. Then I copied and pasted the results in an excel sheet, and then just looked at the differences. Here are the differences between the two bullets:

Range (yards)   Muzzle   50   100   200   300   400   500
.308 +=better -= worse                     
Vel. Diff                  0   -22   -42   -80   -116   -148   -174
Energy Diff        162   114   72   -1   -59   -101   -131
Tragj Diff                    0   0   0   -0.2   -0.8   -2.4   -5.2

Now...tables don't transfer from excel to forums all that well, so I'm not going to post both tables. But I started with a muzzle velocity of 2700fps for both. The initial energy for the .308 was 2428ft\lbs and for the 6.5 it was 2266ft\lbs.

The 6.5 bullet does better at the longer distance because of its better sectional density (.308=.226, 6.5=.287). The additional plus with the 6.5 is the recoil is no where near that of the 30 caliber.

Both will get the job done, but for my money....and my shoulder....I'll take the 6.5mm bullet any day.

Dave

[buckfever 1]

Sorry for the confusion.  My quest is to find a load for a 120grn TSX or TTSX that will with proper over site at 100yds, like 3" is dead on at 300 to 350 yds.  Field shooting in Alberta or Saskatchewan.  This firearm is the most accurate one I have and the way it put down a 250 lb. Mule Deer at 100yds I have the belief that it would be my best bet for this distance.  I included the fact that I have a 30-06 if someone thinks the 6.5x55 won't get the job done.   Thanks  Buckfever

[BBF]

Dave:
 Sectional Density is not the criteria for ballistics, you need to use the Balistic coefficient

The BC for the 150 gr SST(#30302) 30 cal is 0.415
       "             140 gr SST(#26302) 6.5mm is .0520


Using the latest Hdy Manual I see top velocity for the Swed with that bullet is 2600fps from a 29" barrel

Their 30-06 listing gives a top velocity of 3000 fps  from a 23 3/4" barrel

No question that the 30-06 has more recoil. Run your ballistics program again using the above values and see how they compare.

[BBF]

Buckhammer:
 I ran a program using the most streamlined Barnes, a 140 gr bullet at .522 BC
If you can send this bullet out of the muzzle at 2700fps this is what you get under standard atmospheric conditions.

YARDS:     100      150      250     300       350
             +3.25"    +3.5"     X     -4.25"     -10.5"


Your bullet will be at the highest point at 150 yards. You will have sufficient energy at 350 yards if you can live with the drop.
The only way to improve this is to go to:
 a higher muzzle velocity
 accept a zero further out which means you will be higher then 3.5" at some point.

I can run a different bullet but unless you can get a Berger with higher B.C. that Barnes number is a pretty "slick" bullet.

Berger does make a 140 gr bullet that exceeds the B.C. of the Barnes. Whether or not it is for hunting I don't know.

 If you can live with a +4.5" above aimpoint at 150 yards it will be only 7.5 " low at 350 yards

I haven't looked at the 30-06. Let me know if you want me to run some possibilities.

[Davemuzz]

BBF,

While I agree with you on strictly a "numbers" standpoint, that if you run the ballistics programs for the '-06 and the 6.5 Swede and compare the two for downrange velocity, bullet drop and energy and the published bullet maximums', the clear winner on paper will always be the '-06.

However, what I was comparing was the two bullets being fired at the same velocity. Both at 2700fps. And when I stated that because of the SD of the 6.5 being better, I ment that's what gave it (the 6.5) the clear edge in downrange energy performance when compared to the 30 caliber, when the starting velocities were equal. Why?...well, because it's true.

And the book may very well tell you (us) that the maximum velocity for the Hornady 6.5 is 2600fps, but please come to my range and bring your chronograph 'cause you probably won't believe mine....but these bullets will go faster than that and still remain accurate and still provide excellent terminal performance.

Now, also on the "practical" side of "things" I know that the '-06 states the maximum velocity of those bullets will travel 3000fps, and I know that some guns will actually shoot a bullet at that speed or even a tad bit more, and they will shoot them accurately. However, most tubes...at least in the 30 calibers that I've shot, seem to be happier when the bullet is delivered a little bit slower. Also, the recoil is much better. Yeah....I mean much better....and I can't say that enough.

So, again, on paper it all looks good, but in practical terms, like recoil, and the fact that for deer sized game out to 300 yards, an initial MV of 2700fps will get the job done, the 6.5 bullet will do the job better than the 30 caliber. Less shoulder bruising, no flinching for the recoil anticipation, and usually a dead deer at the end of the bullet delivery.

And sometimes, it ain't all just in the numbers.

Dave

[BBF]

Dave:
 No doubts that the Swede will do just fine on deer+ at that distance. Discounting different firearms and accuracy and type of bullet forms and construction it all comes down to how fast you can launch that piece of metal out of the barrel. That is basically all I wrote about.

Looking at most reloading manuals the 260 Rem out performs the Swede mainly because it operates at a higher pressure. Is it a better cartridge.Depends on the individual firearm.
If I have to look at the flattest shooting cartridge for deer size game I would look at the 257 Wby.

[Graybeard]

Let me bottom line this for you.

Your expectations are unrealistic and cannot be obtained PERIOD. 

Even if you switched out that Swede for a 6.5 Ultra Mag or some such it still could not be done I don't think. The ballistics facts of life is that 3" high at 100 don't buy you dead on at 350 yards very well. Just accept that buy a range finder and know the trajectory of whatever is accurate in your rifle and stop worrying about shooting a laser flat bullet cuz they don't exist.

If you know your range precisely and the trajectory of your load intimately then shots to 400 yards are more a matter of accuracy (both yours and that of your rifle) and how well you dope the wind than of how flat the load shoots.

[Davemuzz]

Yeah.....that  will work. 

[buckfever 1]

Thanks for the replies.....Buckfever

[BBF]

The drift( crosswind) would be my concern, the Rangefinder doesn't help on that.

[Siskiyou]

I had to play the ballistic program numbers game.  Using the Hornady .264 (6.5) 140 gr. SST Interlock at 2700 fps muzzle velocity you would be 2.94 inches high at 100-yards, a 250-yard zero.  Using the proceeding criteria and using a 9-inch kill zone, point blank range is 304 yards.  At 350-yards this bullet has dropped –9.97 inches from zero.  Aim at the top of the back and drop the bullet into the kill zone.  Not knowing the velocity of your Barnes bullet, it appears to about one inch flatter at 350-yards.

As recommended by others a Rangefinder is a great tool.  I have spent a lifetime working in the outdoors, and I was foolish enough to think I had eyeball finding down.  I used tools such as topo maps to determine distance between ridge tops but using a rangefinder has added to my knowledge level.

I have three hunting partners with over 150-years of outdoor experience.  We have spent a lot of time comparing eyeball estimates of range to what the rangefinder says.  Last year one of them shot a deer at what he estimated to be 300-yards.  We returned to the location from where he fired the killing shoot.  He had over estimated the range by 44-yards.   Slopes seem to distort distance for me.  The tendency is for people to over estimate the range.  Two of us have had training in pacing and measuring distance at crime scenes and computing acreage of wildfires.  They replaced us with a gps unit.

My son-in-law asked me if I would spend sometime with him practicing range estimates along side the range finder.  The eye can be trained to a certain extent. 

Cross wind is a concern, I recommend a ballistics program such as Sierra’s Infinity Six.  I have a 3x5 index card with wind drift information on it.  There is wind scale that at one time was widely used by sailors and professional foresters.  Here is a link to it:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale

Here is a link to Remote Automated Weather Stations in Canada, click on the current conditions tab for data. http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/database/stn_mnet.cgi?mnet=14

 I have found certain consistency in weather patterns for an area.  Find a station near you and go out and make wind estimates, write these down, and the time of day.  Later go to the page and see how close you estimates are.

This summer I went outside on a slightly breeze day and made some estimates and at the same time I used my handheld wind gauge to measure the conditions.  I was surprise that there was a variable 7-10 mile an hour breeze blowing.  At 350 yards with a 10-mile Hour Wind the SST has drifted 8.14 inches.

You have a couple of good rifles for the distance you are looking at.  Good luck!

A number of us have played the ballistics game.  The problem is that a true long range hunter needs to know the ballistics of his rifle and load.  Not a best guess.  My education came with a Chrony.  Using the average velocity from the Chrony I input the information into my ballistics program and sight my rifle to take  advantage of the information.