rechamber a .45 colt to .454 casull

[minker]

i have a 94 win. trapper in .45 colt.  i'm wondering if the action is strong enough to with stand the pressures of the much more powerful .454 casull . garret , buffalo bore and others offer heavy .45 colt loads that they say are safe to shoot in 94's . theres no reason the cartridge won't function thru the action and magazine but would the action be strong enough. there were some 94's chambered for .444 marlin and .450 marlin , i wouldn't think the .454's pressures would acceed those.

mark

[quickdtoo]

The 454 Casull has a SAAMI MAP of 65kpsi, the 444 is 42kpsi, 450M is 43.5kpsi.

Tim

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/450mtext.htm

[minker]

wow, i never thought it would have that high of  pressure .

is there anywhere i can find what the max. pressure specks of a 94 win. action can withstand ?

[quickdtoo]

Here's an old article on the subject, obviously before the Puma was offered in Casull.

Tim

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-596379_ITM

[Blackhawker]

Minker, scroll down and read what I wrote about my experience with hot 45 Colts in a Winchester 94 on this thread.  (the first paragraph is all you need to read...the rest is about loading etc)  ....keep in mind, my loads are nowhere near a 454 Casull round either.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,154701.msg1098705629.html#msg1098705629

Now, read Paco Kelly's article on heavy loaded 45 Colts in lever guns and pay specific attention to his recommendations with load pressures in a Winchester 94.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

I ended up buying an H&R CR-45LC in order to spare my Winchester any further torture.  If I were you, I'd buy a Puma lever rifle or an H&R Handi in 454 Casull if you really want to use that caliber and spare yourself and your Winchester a lot of pain.

[Headache]

minker,

About a dozen years ago when I was at Winchester (USRAC) we tried to chamber the 94 big bore in 454 Casull with poor results.  It may hold up for a while, but will fail eventually.  It is not only the pressure, which is high, but the quick spike in pressure.

Headache

[minker]

thanks for the info .

i can't see a puma being strong enough if a 94 win. isn't , even though that 92 type action i always thought to be stronger . never saw a puma in .454 .

i may just sell the gun and buy a marlin guide gun in 45/70 .

was considering buying a ruger revolver in .454 casull and wanted to have a rifle if possible to shoot the same cartridge .

this brings up another question , will the .454 casull chamber and fire safely in a 45/70 ? or for that matter a .450 marlin ?

[Sweetwater]

Absolutely not! The casull has the same casehead size as a 45Colt - a lot smaller than a 45-70 casehead. Also, it is way shorter than a 45-70 - everything adds up to a total non-fit.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Blackhawker]

I'm a firm believer in following what the side of the barrel says.  If it doesn't say .454 Casull on it, don't chamber one in it.  Similarly, if you had a set of cheap tires that were speed rated at 88 mph, would you use them to race at speeds of 150mph?  Unless you've got a screw loose, I'm sure the answer is "NO"....and the reason being is because it's unsafe and you could get hurt or even killed.  Why do a similar thing with a firearm?

If you want a .454 Casull handgun and need a rifle to go with it, then check into an H&R Handi.  I believe they chamber a .454 Casull barrel.  I have one in 45 Colt and it is very nice.  In fact, I bought it to spare my Win 94 the beating it's been taking. 

On another note, if you read the article in which I sent a link, Paco Kelly shows data indicating that the Puma can withstand much higher pressure than the Win 94.  I would think that if the 92 is manufactured in .454 Casull, then your problems are solved.

[minker]

i didn't think the 454 would work in those 2 guns becuase of rim or case dia.  ,  i may look into the puma in .454 then. the ones i've seen in other calibers they make the rossi 92 in really didn't impress me but i have quite a few original win. 92's and i guess i'm just prejidiced to them  .

i'm planning on moving to alaska in the next year or 2 and wanted a rifle/handgun combo that was powerful enough to kill anything up there at close range if i had to. something for protection more than normal hunting use.  a 12 ga. pump full of slugs will suffice for that but i want the ease of carrying a revolver and /or a carbine.

i have been hoping someone would bringout a levergun in .500 s&w , i would go that route if they did .

while i like single shot rifles , i don't want to be carrying one in bear country even if i have a handgun of the same caliber. never seen a h&r s/s in ,454 but i have in .500 s&w.

thanks again for the info and insight.

[quickdtoo]

H&R doesn't offer a 454 Handi, but the 45 LC barrel can be easily rechambered by hand to 454 Casull or 460S&W, I did my own to 460 last year.

Tim

http://www.notpurfect.com/main/puma.html

[Blackhawker]

H&R doesn't offer a 454 Handi, but the 45 LC barrel can be easily rechambered by hand to 454 Casull or 460S&W, I did my own to 460 last year.

Tim

http://www.notpurfect.com/main/puma.html

Thanks for clearing that up Tim.  I wasn't sure if they made a .454 or not.  I know they can handle the pressure, that's for sure.

[minker]

found puma's in .454 in 20" and 16" , $525 and $625 respectively . trapper was s/s , wish it was blued .

they had a handi-rifle in .45 colt there.
 

mark

[quickdtoo]

Be aware the Handi isn't available in 45 Colt from the factory, although it could be done thru the accessory barrel program. The Buffalo Classic is the only model that is 45 LC only, they do have a 45/410 Survivor tho which is on a shotgun frame, it wouldn't be a platform for the Casull rechamber tho.

Tim

[Blackhawker]

Thanks for clearing that up Tim. 
Mark, the H&R rifle in 45 Colt that I have is a CR-45, which is the Buffalo Classic style model.  It generally runs a bit more than the standard Handi's because it has a nicer stock, has an antique finish and has buckhorn style sights as opposed to a scope mounting rail.  I think it runs about $150 more than a Handi but it sure looks nice.

Tim can probably give more accurate info on this but I believe you can buy a new or recent model Handi in any caliber as long as it has an SB2 frame and then have it fitted for a standard 45 Colt barrel.  I don't know what advantage this would be as you'd end up spending the same amount of money as the CR-45....or course, you'd have a second barrel.

[quickdtoo]

That's what I meant by going the accessory barrel route, the only restriction is the 45LC accessory barrel can only be fitted to an SB2 frame made 1999 or later. 

Tim

[minker]

that must have been a buffalo classic , it did have buckhorn sites , i don't remember if it had a antique finnish .