Which hunting bullet for .30-06?

[jk3006]

I'd really like to get a mold for my '06.  Ideally, I'd like to be able to push a 180-200 grain bullet at 2400 or better.  I'd like to have some bullets on hand that are dual-alloy (soft-nose and hard base) for dependably taking game at potentially out to 300-400 yards.  I know this is asking a lot.  I keep reading that most people run their velocities under 2000, so me thinks this idea isn't real popular.  What do ya think?  Too much to ask?  Is there a spitzer type mold out there for maximum ballistic coefficient, or am I simply thinking too lofty?

[Badnews Bob]

You can push them that fast but you may or may not have trouble with leading. Depends on alloy and lube I would venture, as for the softnose deal I have never tried that and can offer no info at all there.

[Nobade]

If you're going to hunt with cast bullets going that fast you need to learn about paper patching. Oven heat treated/quenched bullets can go pretty close to that if everything is perfect. But they're going to act like AP rounds on game. With paper patching you can drive nearly dead soft bullets at good speed and get some expansion.

[jk3006]

I've thought about paper patching, but I'm nervous with the idea of using a soft alloy that will splatter on deer or bear at close range.  On the other hand, I thought having the hard base (20 bhn or better) with a soft nose (6 bhn) will give me what I'm looking for.

[jk3006]

act like AP rounds on game.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does "AP" mean?

[Badnews Bob]

Armor piercing.

[Flash]

I'd really like to get a mold for my '06.  Ideally, I'd like to be able to push a 180-200 grain bullet at 2400 or better.  I'd like to have some bullets on hand that are dual-alloy (soft-nose and hard base) for dependably taking game at potentially out to 300-400 yards.  I know this is asking a lot.  I keep reading that most people run their velocities under 2000, so me thinks this idea isn't real popular.  What do ya think?  Too much to ask?  Is there a spitzer type mold out there for maximum ballistic coefficient, or am I simply thinking too lofty?

I have tried this vary thing with Lyman's #311335. I casted up some 65 grain 25 caliber slugs from pure lead and melted them down individually in a small dipper. Then having a pot of much harder alloy ready, I poured the 65 grains of pure lead into the mould and when it gelled, I filled the cavity from the bottom pour furnace. Being shot into wet phone books, they were impresive but some broke in half. A hiatus from the sport made me stop but I might get back into experimenting. Hope this is a starting point for ya.

[jk3006]

I've read that in order to get the best bond between the two alloys, both the nose and base should be poured, then be brought back up to melting temperature (so that they re-melt).  Those who have tried it say that the pure lead stays in the nose and the harder alloy in the rear even though they are basically in liquid form.  When they solidify there is a bond that won't (supposedly) break apart.  The mold is brought back up to temperature for the re-melt (with the two alloys in it) by partly submerging it in the molten pot.

[Larry Gibson]

I'd really like to get a mold for my '06.  Ideally, I'd like to be able to push a 180-200 grain bullet at 2400 or better.  I'd like to have some bullets on hand that are dual-alloy (soft-nose and hard base) for dependably taking game at potentially out to 300-400 yards.  I know this is asking a lot.  I keep reading that most people run their velocities under 2000, so me thinks this idea isn't real popular.  What do ya think?  Too much to ask?  Is there a spitzer type mold out there for maximum ballistic coefficient, or am I simply thinking too lofty?

A velocity of 2400 fps is doable of course but accuracy will be horrible with a regular cast bullet.  Your '06 no doubt has a 10" twist and the RPM will be horrendous at 2400 fps, too much for a regular cast bullet to handle with accuracy.  Yes there are sptzer shaped cast bullets also but they are accurate at the higher velocity/RPM eithe, usually they are worse.  Yes your thinking is too "lofty".

If you want to come back down to Earth then consider a cast bullet of maleable alloy at 2100-2200 fps in your '06.  Many a deer/elk and B bear have been killed with such bullets.  I would recomment a 180-220 gr bullet cast of WWs and lead at a 50/50 mix.  Air cool them and then size "as cast" and lube with a good lube such as Javelina, LARs 2500+ or LBT Blue soft.  Use Hornady GCs.  This alloy will give very good expansion and weight retention out to 200 yards plus with muzzle velocities of 2000+ fps. If the "as cast bullets" are .311" then use a .31 M-die.  Load over medium or slow burning powders such as 4895, RL15, RL19, 4350, H4831SC.  Use a dacron filler of 1/2 gr if the loading density is at or below 80%.  Work up using a chronograph if you have one available.  The chronograph will provide other useful information about your loads along with the average velocity. 

Clean the barrel after every 5 shot group as best accuracy will come with the softer alloy at these velocities in the first 5 shots out of a cold clean barrel.  After 5 shots fouling will build and accuracy will be lessoned. Pay attention to where the first shot goes out of the cold clean barrel as that is the most important shot when hunting.  Continue to increase the powder charge in 1/2 or 1 gr increments untill accuracy for the 5 shots is outside of your accuracy requirement.  Remember a lot of deer and elk are killed with 2-3 moa jacketed loads.  Basically my hunting accuracy criteria for an accurate bolt action scope rifle is 2-2.5 moa.  If there is a flyer that is not called do not discount it. It is telling you something.  Accuracy really shouldn't be needed beyond the first 5 shots simply because if you haven't got the game in 5 shots you might as well go home. 

Larry Gibson

[jk3006]

Thanks for your advice.  I also sent an email off to Veral to get his opinion on it.  I love the 30-06, but if this is true, then the 30-30 or 308 is really the upper end for practical case capacity when using cast bullets in the 30 caliber.

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks for your advice.  I also sent an email off to Veral to get his opinion on it.  I love the 30-06, but if this is true, then the 30-30 or 308 is really the upper end for practical case capacity when using cast bullets in the 30 caliber.

It depends on what you mean by "practical".  If practical is "velocity" then you are probably correct.  One can get very good hunting accuracy in most common .308Ws and '06s with 10" twist barrels at higher velocity with cast bullets by using Lovern designs or some of LBTs designs that fit the case neck and throat correctly.  These bullets also will have short noses.  You can also find a .308 with a 12" twist barrel and get good hunting accuracy into the 2200-2300 fps are without much problem.  However, keep in mind that such loads are specialty "hunting" loads.  They are not loads you'll want for a general pratice seesion where numerous rounds will be fired without cleaning the barrel.  Loads for such are best in the 1800-1950 fps range where accuracy is best and fouling is minimal.  Such loads as those can be shot almost all day long without barrel cleaning.

Better yet for higher velocity cast bullet loads is to get a barrel for either the .308W or the '06 with a 14" twist and use regular cast bullets, even proper fitting bore riders, up through 180 gr for consistantly accurate loads in the 2400-2500 fps range.  A barrel with 4 lands and grooves of .004" depth is a good choice. Such barrels are generally referred to as "Palma" barrels.  Of course to push the envelope up into that velocity range takes a couple other loading techniques but it's not hard if you understand what is going on with such loads. 

Larry Gibson

[Sweetwater]

I'm sure Veral will give you a very doable solution what you are attempting.
Back in 2003, I was living in S.Cal. and doing very limited shooting. A review of my 30-06 Chrony records reveals we churned up an average velocity of 2275fps es=35 sd=16 pushing a Lyman#31141 cast at 182gr (bhn14) from a Remington 700 with 22" barrel. This is enough for practical hunting at practical ranges for those who practice shot placement. Deer and antelope will simply fold, with proper placement, at least out to 200 yards. I haven't tried longer ranges on them. Works on Elk at 150 yards. Don't know what would happen at longer ranges. Guess if I had an Elk in my sights with this load at 250 yards, I'd take the shot. (That velocity works in my 8mmx57 on elk with a 200gr out to at least 300 yards)
Practical range varies, for me, with terrain. In Wyoming, it was a matter of ok, I can see him, but can I get closer. I used a 3x scope and 'it' told me if the range was practical or not. In Maine and here in N.Idaho, the timber dictates, again for me, a much closer practical range. My color perception is so bad that I very rarely see blood on the ground. I need to see that animal drop where I shot it - not track it for miles. I like close shots! Most of my elk and nearly all of my deer have been under 150 yards. Most antelope were less than that. This type of load, as described above, works in this arena. It's a fun trip! Especially after years of believing I needed Premium bullets to fill the freezer, only to find I can do it with flying wheel weights!

Regards,
Sweetwater