New to ML, need starting point..

[DogDoc]

I just pulled a 20 YO TC Hawkin .50 cal "cougar" out of the gun safe, and need to start over.  Obviously, much has changed since I bought this rifle, noticeably the development of sabot rounds and pelleted pyrodex.

What would be a good place to start in terms of bullet weight/style and powder charge?  The goal here will be whitetail hunting loads w/ iron sights over moderate distances (20-100 yards).  I have some OLD pyrodex, .490 balls, and OLD caps.  Also some "maxi-balls" (I forget the weight).  I've read the beginning muzzleloading articles suggested in prior posts (sorry to hear about Bluelk) and noted the recommendation to start w/ 75gr of powder.  Which bullet?  I've called TC for a replacement manuel on this rifle (didn't answer the phone.... very odd.... I've talked to them several times before at that number on a CF Encore I own).  My 13 YO son wants to hunt w/ black powder this year, so we're trying to get started.

Any recommendations on powder measure/horn would be appreciated.  I've got an old brass measure, no flask, a short starter ram, a ramrod, no bullet puller screw (obviously I'm not up on my terminology, either), no patches, no nipple wrench.  Just an adventurous son and 2 months untill deer season.

Thanks in advance!

Steve

[Greybeard]

Reckon I'm not as sophisticated as some but the ONLY load I use in a .50 is either a 385 grain Hornady Great Plains Bullet or Buffalo Bullet over 100 grains equivalent of Pyrodex. Has always worked for me so I have no plans to change.

GB

[savageT]

I just pulled a 20 YO TC Hawkin .50 cal "cougar" out of the gun safe, and need to start over.  Obviously, much has changed since I bought this rifle, noticeably the development of sabot rounds and pelleted pyrodex.

What would be a good place to start in terms of bullet weight/style and powder charge?  The goal here will be whitetail hunting loads w/ iron sights over moderate distances (20-100 yards).  I have some OLD pyrodex, .490 balls, and OLD caps.  Also some "maxi-balls" (I forget the weight).  I've read the beginning muzzleloading articles suggested in prior posts (sorry to hear about Bluelk) and noted the recommendation to start w/ 75gr of powder.  Which bullet?  I've called TC for a replacement manuel on this rifle (didn't answer the phone.... very odd.... I've talked to them several times before at that number on a CF Encore I own).  My 13 YO son wants to hunt w/ black powder this year, so we're trying to get started.

Any recommendations on powder measure/horn would be appreciated.  I've got an old brass measure, no flask, a short starter ram, a ramrod, no bullet puller screw (obviously I'm not up on my terminology, either), no patches, no nipple wrench.  Just an adventurous son and 2 months untill deer season.

Thanks in advance!

Steve

Dog Doc,
The best advice I can offer is to contact Cecil at Precision Rifle and have him recommend a combination of precision's Dead Center bullet w/sabot, Pyrodex or Triple Seven powders.  Let us know how you make out.
http://www.prbullet.com/

On the chance that you will be going to Wal-Mart in the next few days, I would pick up  T/C's MAG EXPRESS SABOTS #8246 w/ 240 grain XTP bullet, or PowerBelt 295 grain HP Copper-Clad bullets. (These do not use sabots, but instead have a plastic skirted base around the hollow-point bullet).  I would opt for 2f Triple Seven powder and start your load at around 75 to max 100 grains for .50 caliber (about 90gr. for my best accuracy).  Good luck with these combinations.


Jim

[LOG EYE]

HI DogDoc:  Seems like you have a 1:48 twist T/C barrel on your .50. If I'm wrong, someone please update this message, BUT I wouldn't suggest trying the sabot-type bullets as they do best ina faster twist barrel, 1:28 or 1:32. The Buffalo type bullets are great if you can work up an accurate load. I suggest you use a pillow or matress ticking of 0.015-0.018 thickness. It's not hard ,really , just go to the Wally mart or any fabric store and get the thickest feeling ticking  and the next thickest down; about a yard of each ought to do it. Wash it , dry it , and I iron it flat(Oh yeah, I forgot to say ONLY get 100% cotton material!!!)  Cut it in 1 1/2" stips with SHARP scissors, select your patch lube (spit or commercial stuff) . Use 2F Goex , 2f triple 7, or(ugh) NEW pyrodex about 75 gr-90 behind any pure lead round ball and you'll havest  about any deer  out to 100 yards, and it won't kill your shoulder doing it like a Buffalo bullet will.Happy shootin' and go get'um..  

[savageT]

LOGEYE,
Just a comment.......My Traditions side-hammer has a 1:48 twist and works very well with sabots.  Doc, don't let the twist scare you, I had much better accuracy with sabots than I ever did with T/C's maxi-hunters conicals.

[Charles/NM]

Old caps, Pyrodex and Maxiballs will work fine for your first tests.  I've used Pyrodex that was 6 or 7 years old and it ignited as well as the new stuff.  If your old caps are Remington brand you are OK.  I have some 20 year old CVA caps that work OK but leave an incredible amount of white residue in the nipple - could stop up a new Hot Shot nipple.  I would use 80 grains of Pyro with your Maxiballs and later try 85 and 90 to see what effect it has on your groups.  You need a bullet lubricant of some kind.  I use T/C lube in the tellow tube.  If you can't find it use unsalted Crisco for a start - that's probably what the T/C lube is anyway.  Keep lube off the base of the bullet - it kills the powder.  I've not had much luck getting 245 and 275 grain Ball-Ets to shoot acurate in my 48" twist barrel with more than a 60 grain powder charge.  More than that and groups diverge something terrible.  You need 330 to 380 grain bullets for that 48" twist barrrel.  Forget the patched round balls in your barrel.  You need a slower twist to get acceptable accuracy.  I haven't tried sabots in my rifle and see no need to - I get accuracy as good as my in-line shooting buddies and have much less trouble loading. You can get a pouring spout for your Pyrodex container at Wal Mart and pour from it into your powder measure.  If you have a good barrel you should be able to get at least 2" groups at 75 yards from a rest.
That's my 2 cents worth.

[Winter Hawk]

Before you forget the patched round ball, I suggest you give it a try.  The 1 in 48" twist was used by T-C and others as a compromise to allow shooting a RB which is happiest with a slower twist and conicals which like a faster twist.  Some rifles will handle the round ball very nicely while others won't, and you won't know if yours will without trying.  Also, the 75 grains of powder is just a starting point.  Load development includes trying various combinations of patch thickness and ball diameter as well as varying the powder charge.  Luckily black powder and its equivalents are pretty forgiving so varying the charge in 5 grain increments should get you the best group, rather than fussing with 1/2 gr. increments like with smokeless.

Buy some .490 and .495 round balls, some conicals and some sabots, and precut patches in several thicknesses.  Take the rifle to the range and play with it.  Just vary one thing at a time until you get the best groups.

The round ball has killed lots of deer over hundreds of years.  Don't sell it short.

-Kees-

[Charles/NM]

OK, I agree patched balls are worth trying.  My old T/C 48" barrel does shoot round balls very well in the out of production green plastic Poly Patch.  I still have a large bag of them but have no alternative when they are gone. I've thought about trying a round ball in a modern sabot.  I've had no end of problems with blown and burned patches - and I've tried everything.  Could be my loading technique or my particular barrel.

[Triple Se7en]

Short pistol sabot/bullets (XTPs) between 185-240 grains work well in most 1-48s.

Many 1-48" barrels need a wad between the powder & ball to shoot roundballs accurately at longer distances.

This week, I shot 245 grained Powerbelts in my 1-48".... better accuracy than my Ballets, sabots or Great Plains bullets.

[Jerry/PA]

Hi DogDoc;

You asked for a starting point.  A few of the fellows seem to be trying too hard to help you out.  Here are a couple of starting points.  Starting points are what you asked for...

Hornady Roundball .490

pre-lubed patches  .015

Goex 2F blackpowder if you can find it in your area.

Start with 75 grains, (which is 1 1/2 times your caliber)  Go up or down 5 or 10 grains to find your best accuracy.

Shoot a lot, learning blackpowder doesn't  happen overnight.  I'm not sure it happens fully in a lifetime!

Regards,

Jerry/PA

[TOGO]

DogDoc,

    Make sure you buy a nipple wrench and remove the nipple and inspect it along with running a pipe cleaner the the hole, my best friend has a hawken 50, and for 15 years took it hunting, always shot it, he never new you could remove the nipple so he cleaned with it on, last muzzleloader season he past on a nice 7 point because it wouldn't fire.