Lets talk 30-30 AI...

[R.W.Dale]

CW for what you describe 30-40 Krag would be the better ticket.

1. it has a rim

2. a rechamber is easy

3. it offers a real ballistic improvemnt  over 30-30

4. it has a nice low 19th century pressure rating

.308 bored 303British or 7.62x54r would also work well and use a more common case.

personally before I bothered with a 30-30 AI I would simply overload std 30-30, as Greybeard alludes to that's where all your performance gains are anyhow. The voodoo with the "improved" case shape is exactly that

[carbineman]

If you started with a 30-30 barrel and reamed to 307 chamber the length of the chamber would be a little longer, but you would have the correct extractor to grip the 307's rim upon extraction. Back sometime ago I was looking into doing this and never quite made the plunge.

I am for the most part happy with the 30-30 and using the 130 grain Barnes XBT have killed most everything that has walked or crawled in front of me out to 225 yds. The weak part of the equation is the thinner 30-30 case and even before that was the actions it was used in. With todays Handi receiver that will handle higher pressures, beefing up your 30-30 loads while not recommended has been done.

[coyotejoe]

One online source lists the case capacity of the 30/30 as being 44.4 grains of water. They list the 30/30AI as 45.4 grains, an increase of only 2.2%. I have no way to verify those numbers. The improved version does move the shoulder forward very slightly and shorten the neck by about .087".
 What Ackley claimed is that the improved case shape would handle pressure much better than the original tapered case, he said it greatly reduced back thrust on the bolt. He never denied that his improved loads ran higher pressure but claimed the improved case could better handle the higher pressure.  Ackley did pressure test many, if not all loads.
At best the 30/30AI may be good for 200fps over the standard 30/30. I really doubt one could detect the difference either in trajectory or much less in results on game. I really like the 30/30 A I (As Is), it is such a generally satisfactory cartridge that I don't think it needs any "improvement".

[tykempster]

LOL a 280 improved improved!

Quick I've been curious as to what the 30-30 can do with the big bullets seated long and a higher pressure.  Could you PM me with velocities it could offer with the heavy matchkings?

[R.W.Dale]

What Ackley claimed is that the improved case shape would handle pressure much better than the original tapered case, he said it greatly reduced back thrust on the bolt.

for a loose clapped out old savage 340 or Winchester that may be a worthwile advantage. But it's negated when you're using a platform rated fro 65K psi cartridges.

I hate to say this as many Idolize folks such PO Ackely and Ken Waters. But Modern pressure testing equpment has prooven most of thier theroies to be incorrect speculation at best and at worst downright foolishness. The "state of the art" has moved on I wouldn't read a TV repairmans guide from the 50's to figure out how to install a HD blueray player to my Plasma

[coyotejoe]

What Ackley claimed is that the improved case shape would handle pressure much better than the original tapered case, he said it greatly reduced back thrust on the bolt.

for a loose clapped out old savage 340 or Winchester that may be a worthwile advantage. But it's negated when you're using a platform rated fro 65K psi cartridges.
 
 Well, the '94 Winchester was the rifle for which the 30/30AI was designed. Also I think lots of people can attest that handi-rifles do not hold up very well with constant use of high pressure cartridges.

I hate to say this as many Idolize folks such PO Ackely and Ken Waters. But Modern pressure testing equpment has prooven most of thier theroies to be incorrect speculation at best and at worst downright foolishness. The "state of the art" has moved on I wouldn't read a TV repairmans guide from the 50's to figure out how to install a HD blueray player to my Plasma

That's an interesting analogy but ignores the fact that many thousands of shooters over the past fifty years have had very satisfactory results from Ackley's designs and data.  Is data compiled with modern equipment better or is it just different? Ackley's ideas have stood the test of time. I don't know of many TV sets from the 1950's which are still in operation.
 As for Ken Waters, I agree, much of what he wrote was just speculation and speculation from a biased perspective. I'd certainly not put him in the same pot with P.O. Ackley who put his theories to the test.
  My apologies here, I inserted my remarks into "Korchus's" post in such a way that they appear to be part of his original post. That was not my intention. I meant to break his post into two parts but lack the computer skills to do so.

[Ruskin]

I am now fire forming brass.  I have a set of 30-30AI dies; however, I would like to have a die that neck sizes only.

I can't seem to fin any.  Does anyone just neck size or complet resize.

The AI out shoots the 300 whisper hands down.  I get groups when I am fire forming I wish i could have gotten with the whisper.





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[LaOtto222]

Just to give you more thought - Here is a 30-30 AI improved...The 30 GNR It is like a 30-30 AI with the shoulder pushed further forward. Claimed 300 Savage performance.

It is about half way down the page. Oh there are some others for thought there too. Stimpy (Richard) has a 224 GNR which is a 357 Max necked down to .224. I think he likes his.

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/information/GNR_cartridges.htm