Author Topic: Will GM fail??? (Read 1123 times)

no guns here · « **on:** March 05, 2009, 06:51:16 AM »

I think the good 'ol gubment won't let it happen completely. I'm watching the stock to see if I should jump in. I think GM will get a complete bailout or maybe a restructuring but I don't see it dying completely. I think it's probably near time to buy a couple thousand shares... Hold onto them for 5-10 years and reap the benefits later. What say you?

ngh

wgr · « **Reply #1 on:** March 05, 2009, 06:56:35 AM »

i think they got all of our money now they will file chapter 11 regroup get rid of most union power invest in overseas auto plants and be on their merry way. laughing at us all the way to the bank

ms · « **Reply #2 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:00:04 AM »

Quote from: wgr on March 05, 2009, 06:56:35 AM

i think they got all of our money now they will file chapter 11 regroup get rid of most union power invest in overseas auto compass and be on their merry way. laughing at us all the way to the bank

They wouldn't do that.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #3 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:00:33 AM »

Either that or they will reorganize and relocate somewhere else in the US, or sell off their assets to Ford, Chrysler, or a foreign company.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:02:40 AM »

It will be very unfortunate if they do but they will have no one else to blame except themselves which includes the union and un-American buying practices of the public.

Questor · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:14:33 AM »

It already has failed. The question is whether the US tax payers will keep them in business anyway.

no guns here · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:42:09 AM »

Dang... maybe the American public would "buy American" if GM would produce a better vehicle that looked better and had better quality and got better mileage. GM advertises 30 mpg... VW sells 45-50mpg. Honda's and Toyota's have been getting over 30 mpg for YEARS. They last better, run better and get better mileage. The only thing we have on them is full-sized pickups. Now, if UAW would give up there $75 an hour salarys and a bunch of their perks the Big Three MIGHT be able to compete and produce quality at a price competitive with most foreign cars...

I've owned somewhere at least 25 different vehicles from Honda (2), Chevy (10), Ford (2), Mercury (1), VW (4), Opel (1), BMW (1), Datsun (1), Buick (2), Isuzu (1), Toyota (1) so I guess I've got a pretty good handle on experience with different makes. The ones that lasted the best have been VW's and Honda's with the exception of one '89 Suburban that I just can't kill. My current VW is a 1992 Golf VR6 that will run the autobahn at 125 mph all day if I ask it to. It has around 165,000 miles on it if I did the KM/Miles conversion right in my head. Find ANY stock, unmodified American car that will do it... American cars wouldn't do that in 1992... except for about four models but I bet there aren't many of those running any more.

ngh
(flame retardent undies are ON)

dw06 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:57:56 AM »

Quote from: Questor on March 05, 2009, 07:14:33 AM

It already has failed. The question is whether the US tax payers will keep them in business anyway.

Bingo!

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2009, 08:08:29 AM »

no guns here:

I have bought both American and Japanese cars during the past 30 years, and the American cars today are actually better than any foreign cars I have had. My wife and I have never worn out an American car, and all of those we have had have shown no signs of quitting after 200,000 to 250,000 miles each. The only reason we have changed cars is because our needs changed, not because the cars have worn out.

It used to be different in the 70s and 80s, but since about 1990, American cars excluding GM products have been excellent in my experience. It took GM longer to catch up to the pack, but their cars today are very good too.

I've looked into Volvos (bad dealer support in my area), VW (expensive parts and poor dealer support in my area), Toyota (not as comfortable as US alternatives and a lot more expensive), Honda (same impression as Toyota, Mazda (too much super negative feedback from other owners), and Subaru (cramped for a tall guy, but otherwise attractive), and we just keep buying the American ones. The last car we bought was a Dodge Caravan and I was amazed that I could buy a new one for only a little more than a used one three years old, after all the dealer and manufacturer incentives. Toyota couldn't begin to compete with that.

Cost of ownership has been about the same, American vs. Japanese.

My current car is a Ford Explorer with almost 300,000 miles on it. We just did a cross-country trip with it. I was going to replace it before now, but it's such a good car, I'll keep it for a while longer.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2009, 08:28:56 AM »

American cars today are on par with the Japanees quality per most all the statistics available. I challenge anyone to tell me that a japanees truck is better in any way than GM. I think they are clearly better and when it comes to the 3/4 and 1 ton market, the Japanees don't even have a product offering. A freind has the 1 st generation Toyota Tundra and he has had nothing but durability issues with it and it gets horrible MPG compared to same true 1/2 ton GM which is bigger and has better tourqe and tow cap.

We have 2 GMs. One is a new SUV and the other a 2004 Impala with 55k miles. Zero issues with both, zero. And the Impala gets about 27ish MPG and has a pretty good get up and go v6.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2009, 10:13:56 AM »

Toyota and Honda recently asked the Japanese government for help.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2009, 10:29:07 AM »

cabin 4 we run dodge , chevy . ford and 2 yotas . FOR a work truck the yota leaves alot to be desired . They don't carry as much weight . they don't hold up as well . As a go to the store truck it might be OK but if you really need a truck go American

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2009, 10:45:53 AM »

Quote

The last car we bought was a Dodge Caravan and I was amazed that I could buy a new one for only a little more than a used one three years old, after all the dealer and manufacturer incentives. Toyota couldn't begin to compete with that.

Strange Rudy. My last two new trucks have both been Toyota and both times when shopping around locally the big threee would have run me at least $10,000 more for a comparable size and equipped American brand truck and they are in fact no more American than my American made Toyota trucks.

The Tundra was traded on the Sequoia but I now regret that I should have kept it too. In just shy of four years it never had the first issue that I needed to have it seen about for. No clue how long it could have lasted but it had better quality and fewer problems than any American brand vehicle I've ever owned other than my '85 Bronco which like the Tundra had none at all.

My new Sequoia is as large as any American branded SUV out there, has more HP and gets better MPG and cost me about $10K less than local dealers wanted for a comparable size Big three brand SUV.

I gave up on GM after buying a new Olds Delta 88 Royale and Chevy Silverado also new. Both spent more time in the shop than at my house. After those two I said NEVER AGAIN and haven't owned a GM product since.

If Ford had not dropped the Bronco and changed their full size pickup line to be so butt ugly I'd maybe have stayed with them but for me to they'd have needed to get their prices in line.

torpedoman · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2009, 02:50:31 PM »

truth be known G.M. never made much money selling cars. The money was made by G.M.A.C. the financing arm of the company that financed your purchase.

Questor · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2009, 04:16:55 PM »

GB:

I do like the Toyota pickups, I just don't have a use for one. I had a Camry and we looked at their Sienna minivan. The Camry was a decent car, with about the same cost of ownership and repair history of other cars I've owned. The Sienna was too expensive and we didn't like it as much as the Caravan. The minivans are my wife's idea of a good ride although I am opposed to them because it's basically putting a light truck on a mid-size car chassis and not even Toyota has figured out how to make them as reliable and durable as conventional cars and trucks.

After the kids are gone we may have a pickup truck in our future, but at the rate things are going it'll probably be powered by wind and solar panels.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2009, 04:36:55 PM »

Quote from: no guns here on March 05, 2009, 06:51:16 AM

I think the good 'ol gubment won't let it happen completely. I'm watching the stock to see if I should jump in. I think GM will get a complete bailout or maybe a restructuring but I don't see it dying completely. I think it's probably near time to buy a couple thousand shares... Hold onto them for 5-10 years and reap the benefits later. What say you?
ngh

Thats a great idea if you are 30 or 40 those of us that are almost 60 are in a little bit of a bind, our 401 k's are in the tank ! What we have left were saving for beans and rice and rice and beans! But you take that jump when you feel right about it.

Now about GM, I dont do biness with them but i wish them no harm, its my personal choice brought on due to doing biness with them! But if they fail then so be it, someone or thing will step up and take their place. Its how capitalism works.

I'm not doing business with any corporation or entity that is taking money from the Govt. We all should do that if for no other reason than to make it obvious to the government that they should not interfere with business! My 1/2 cent cause thats all I have left!

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2009, 04:45:33 PM »

GM has already failed and yet we keep dumping billions into them. The question is when will we stop and cut the losses and let them go under.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2009, 04:59:59 PM »

They should all sink or swim on their own. No more money for any of these companies or banks. Keep the government out.

no guns here · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2009, 05:36:00 AM »

My personal feeling is that IF we must face tough times, then the weak companies will fail. The strong ones with good products and effecient practices will survive. Let them go... BUT you KNOW the demoncrats won't let that happen and they'll find some way to bail out GM, SO I think that those who CAN afford to invest and wait will be able make money in the long term. It may take a year or ten even but I think it will eventually be worth much more than it is today. I feel sorry for those who have taken huge hits so far and who may not be able to accept the risk of staying in for the long haul. I know a couple of folks who have taken over $100k hits so far. I know one guy who has lost over $200k of his value...

ngh

williamlayton · « **Reply #19 on:** March 07, 2009, 01:46:17 AM »

I'm 68 and my 401 is a 101, now.
That said, there have been more than one car maker that has failed in the past and we survived.
I say let em sink or swim.
If I am broke and my pension disappears then I have but one choice. I don't like it but my Father promised me a greater reward than this world.
We were given a Republic---let's see if we are mean enough to hold it.
Blessings

Oldshooter · « **Reply #20 on:** March 07, 2009, 03:58:05 AM »

One thing you have to remember is that the government(obama) aint supporting the car builder as much as it is supporting the UAW / Unions (its voters).

So dont expect the government to do anything rational its all political decisions being made there!

Cabin4 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 07, 2009, 04:04:16 AM »

GM should be forced to make it on their own. No tax dollars should be used to prop them up. Let them file for bankruptcy protection and reorganize. If they can make it after reorganization, then they are likely a viable operation. If they still fail, then they are not viable and should fail.

I do believe it would be shame for them to go under but what can you do.....How do we keep asking the American tax payers to keep injecting capitol into a failing business.

If I were in the market for a new car/truck right now I would buy a GM, Ford or Chrysler. That’s the extent of support I’m willing to do as an American tax payer.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 07, 2009, 04:05:48 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on March 07, 2009, 03:58:05 AM

One thing you have to remember is that the government(obama) aint supporting the car builder as much as it is supporting the UAW / Unions (its voters).

So dont expect the government to do anything rational its all political decisions being made there!

Your absolutly right about that. This is all about Obama's political payback to the Unions.

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** March 07, 2009, 05:09:49 AM »

I see you guys STILL don't get it.

Obama's support of unions is nothing but smoke and mirrors to get their votes.

The ONLY folks he really supports are the super rich cabal who paid the real bucks to get him where he is now. You guys need to get the bigger picture of what's going on and stop looking at the smoke and mirrors.

There is a cabal of rich and super rich who are running this country and most of the world today. Their end game requires the death of 85% to 90% of the world's population and the ones left other than their selves will be the slaves/servants who do their bidding. Us common folks are now a part of the picture and just need to be removed.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** March 07, 2009, 05:19:34 AM »

pay back ?
or just one more fear for the public to deal with ? How many 401 K dollars are involved ? most 401 K policies invest in GM in some way .
If we fear we will loose our savings it will be easy for them to spend more and push us into deeper debt with out loosing votes .
We are going to loose money either way !

Cabin4 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 07, 2009, 05:35:28 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on March 07, 2009, 05:09:49 AM

I see you guys STILL don't get it.

I clearly get it. That's why I called it political payback. They supported him in the election and he's now supporting them.

I hope more people also see the larger picture as well with the super rich and how this president is working to ensure their continued survival, growing influence and the first step goal of socialisam. Once Socialisam has a firm hold, it will enable them to take it to the next steps.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #26 on:** March 07, 2009, 05:38:14 AM »

I'm betting that GM will be in Chapter 11 within 3-6 months if not sooner. I don't think they'll go into Chapter 7.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #27 on:** March 07, 2009, 02:28:54 PM »

Lee Iacocca brought Crysler from the brink with government gauranteed loans he did not get a bailout he made the company profitable and paid off the loans. Why does GM have to be bailed out.

Quote

Realizing that the company would go out of business if it did not receive a significant amount of money to turn the company around, Iacocca approached the United States Congress in 1979 and asked for a loan guarantee. While it is sometimes said that Congress lent Chrysler the money, it, in fact, only guaranteed the loans. Most thought this was an unprecedented move, but Iacocca pointed to the government bailouts of the airline and railroad industries, arguing that more jobs were at stake in Chrysler's possible demise. In the end, though the decision was controversial, Iacocca received the loan guarantee from the government.