Author Topic: Learning the craft  (Read 1854 times)

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Offline kombi1976

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Learning the craft
« on: March 15, 2009, 10:37:11 PM »
Last weekend a mate from a local hunting forum invited me to go deer hunting in a state forest down south.
About 4 or 5 years back the NSW State Government made the biggest step forward they had since the big gun ban in '96 and set up the NSW Game Council.
The Game council organises conservation hunting and access to state forests for hunters to be able to hunt introduced species in order to take the pressure off native species which have taken a hammering.
This meant that once hunters sat and passed the test for a Restricted Lincence (which you'd have to be stupid to fail) and paid their $75 a year they could book any of the declared state forests and hunt in them almost all the time.
We can't hunt national parks yet but the time is coming and as we hunt introduced species, not natives, this sort of hunting is something the tree huggers have no defense for.
Only the animal rights mobs still protest but that's pretty hollow too because if you don't hunt feral species you drive the native ones toward extinction......what sort of rights are the native animals enjoying in that situation?
The Game Council introduced seasons for some species of deer but it actually represented the first game management the state has had and made it legal to be able to hunt in the forests.
In other words now the poachers had some competition and the authorities had some weighty legislation for people who were caught.
I've had my Restricted Licence for state forests for a while now but never used it before and I've definitely never hunted deer so the invite was very welcome.
This particular guy has hunted literally since he was 10 or 12 and his family eats venison almost the entire time.
He's out at a number of hunting spots every second weekend and is super experienced so I got ready to be a sponge for the weekend.
I drove down to his place about an hour away and then we loaded our stuff into his car and headed south about 2 hours dropping in for a quick bite not far from the hunting spot.
From about 3pm onward we hiked 6km up and down hills, along flats, through bracken, around big rocks and generally kept up the pace.
He did fine.
I, on the other hand, am a true lounge vegetable, and it just about killed me.
But the walk was an education in itself.

"See this plant, red deer and sambar love it.......see how it's chewed down, they've been here in the last week."

"Look at the rubbing on this tree....pigs did this with their tusks."

"Remember what I said about deer sign on the drive out.....these little ones are fallow deer and they're about a week old; recent stuff is really slimy."

And on the info went.
When we finally made it back to the car I already knew a heap.
We even saw 2 little fallow does scooting away into the brush.
Then we headed for another flat and sat there until the sun went down in the hope of bagging a deer but not such luck.
We had pasta for dinner and chatted for quite a while before hitting the sack with a relaxed view of getting up.
It rained pretty heavily during the night but we both stayed dry and the next morning my mate had already gone for a walk.
Apparently I was snoring hard, a sure sign I was tired, so he checked last night's flat and some other places he knew well.
No fresh sign or prints even after the rain.
We headed out again after some brekkie and hiked another 2.5km, this time in easy increments.
But there was more to learn.
I learnt as much about where to look and what to look for as which conclusions to make about what you found.
But more importantly to be alert because you could turn a corner when there was no sign or prints and see a deer looking you in the face.
In the end we didn't bag any deer but the time out there was great and we hit a great bakery cafe on the way home for lunch.
My wife's due date in late May for child No4 means I won't get out again in the rut this year but we arranged to fix a date in late September or early October.
The most amazing thing is that my friend only wanted $20 for the whole weekend and that was for fuel.
He fed me while we were hunting plus lunch before we headed out on Saturday (a roast venison sandwich with gravy and mustard no less!) and also led me through the paperwork I needed to organise to hunt in the state forest.
I really can't say enough about his generosity in terms of his time and knowledge and he's a top bloke just to hang out with.
But I have to say I have muscles hurting that I didn't even know I HAD!!!
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Jacko

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 12:16:55 AM »
Good story Kombi , I have a bowhunting mate like the fella you hunted with - He is simply the most amazing hunter I have ever seen . After hunting with him for the last 15 years I have given up trying to compete with him , just go along for the ride . I reckon I can read game OK and find it most of the time but I hunt best on my own - this fella is uncanny with his stalking and 6th sense for where game is plus the bugger can shoot - bow or rifle . He told me once in the late 90's it's great to hunt with someone who know's what there doing - the next day I got lost and followed it up and bushed myself again the next day . I got myself out no worries both days but that fact seems to have got lost - He has not let me forget it !!!!!!!!!! My confidence takes a bruising ;D

I have nearly finalised my R licence as well , bit a run around but worth it . I have applied for an R licence with Rifle Shotgun , Bow and Muzzleloader . Gotta agree the written test is a bit easy for a relatively experienced hunter . I have a couple of Archery tournaments down south this year , one around Newcastle and another Coffs Harbour . I have holidays for both those shoots and will be booking myself a hunt in the forest up Dorrigo way in November and will be contacting the Newcastle boys to tell me the best area's they hunt within 3 or 4 hours . If there is no game - at least I'm in the scrub , if there is - EXCELLANT !

regards Jacko
"To my deep mortification my father once said to me, "You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family."

                                                      Charles Darwin

Offline bilmac

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 12:23:01 AM »
You guys make me realize how great we have it in America, and that there is really no place to run to. I had always thought of Austrailia as the last remaining great wilderness.

Offline kombi1976

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 12:34:50 AM »
You guys make me realize how great we have it in America, and that there is really no place to run to. I had always thought of Austrailia as the last remaining great wilderness.
You know, in many ways Australia is the last remaining great wilderness.
There are still places here that I think no human has ever been before.
And, at least in terms of game, I reckon we have it a little better than you guys.
While the number of species may be less the deer seasons are MASSIVE........March 1st to October 31st for fallow deer and red deer and wapiti.
And sambar deer, chital deer and rusa deer can be hunted the year round.
Land access is admittedly less on government land but that is changing.
The only drawback we really have is the gun laws but if you hunt anywhere on the east coast or in the top end (North Queensland and the Northern Territory) the gun laws are tolerable and game is quite good if not excellent.
I'm not sure what you mean about there being really no place to run to in America.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline bilmac

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 03:59:34 AM »
Just a romantic notion of mine that if our Democrats made life too bad here I could always just shake the dust off my shoes here and head to Australia.

Offline kombi1976

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 04:34:07 AM »
Well, you could, but don't bother bring your self loaders or your handguns.
The semis are illegal and unless you are a regular competitor in handgun comps you'd rail at the requirements to own them.
As I said the laws are irksome but the hunting is great if you pick your spots.
There are a lot of other advantages to Oz....a very low level of violent crime compared to the USA, health care for all, a welfare state that actually looks after people, a good standard of living, excellent beer and a generally laid back lifestyle.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline bilmac

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 11:41:22 AM »
Now that I think of it I was making a phone order to a sporting goods store on the other side of the country one day and I noticed the lady taking my order had an accent so I asked her about it. She said that she was from Australia. I asked her why she was in Amarica, and she told me she was a cometitive handgun shooter and got tired if the attitude about handguns there so she left. I take it she was maybe an Olympic shooter or something.

Offline kombi1976

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009, 04:30:22 AM »
If you're a high level handgun competitor I can understand why it would frustrate you like mad but aside of that it's easy to put most stuff through for target shooting.
People don't tend to use semi-autos for trap or skeet shooting here.
The frustration is that we can't use pump shotties or semi-auto rifles and shotguns when pig shooting which often involves fast followups.
SKSs and SKKs were perfect for it.......a 30-30 powered round in a fast cycling autoloader with cheap ammo.
Most of the time it was short range so if you could kit a pie plate at 50yds you were fine.
Now guys who are into it favour the Rem 7600 Police in 308.
Some people even use the Rem 7615 in 223 Rem because it has a 10 shot mag like the mil rifles and they have ways of slicking them up to make them faster, etc.
Personally, I think 223 is good for anything up to a goat and perhaps a small pig.
But if they're of any decent size at all you want something bigger.......in fact anything bigger.
The problem is most of the bullets in 224 cal are designed to detonate the game, not penetrate.
Muddy pigs build up the sort of armour of filth and coarse hair and a 55gr or 60gr HP is unlikely to subdue one if it hits the wrong place, at least as far as I've been told.
Even a 130gr 308 pill should flatten them.
A good lever gun in 30-30 or 357 Mag or 44 Mag or even 444 Marlin or 38-55 is much preferable.
IMO the Rem 7615 .223 is more about posturing and less about practical shooting, but hey, the shooting I do isn't pigs.
Jacko probably has more insight into that side of things.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Jacko

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 09:06:00 AM »
Little Johnny's crowning acheivment makes me cranky everytime someone mentions it - for F@#$'S sake , banning semi auto pistols , rifles , shotguns and pump action shotguns !

I do wonder about the manufacturers and there marketing influencing people , it seems to me that Tactical [ Tacticool ???] and high velocity are the rage for seperating folks from there cash for to long now . Its the same deal with Archery gear - I use traditional equipment and am looked down upon because my arrows only shoot at 160fps and not 280 fps never mind 20 000 years of history of this equipment doing the job , critters are tougher nowaday's apparently .

I like those Remington pumps but for a hunting rifle , I would rather the .308 over a .223 . Just makes a bigger hole due to better bullet choices available for the task . .223's have the energy , more than my little .357 mag lever in fact but I am starting off with a 35 cal hole not finishing with one . A .357 is a bit marginal on the really big pigs but how many of them do you see anyway . Just sneak in close and place my shot , actually hunting the thing instead of sniping it .

This thread has wondered a bit off topic but it's interesting . For me I rarely look to today for the answers to questions I have , I look to the past as there is not much that has not been thought of or tried before . There is a reason the old timers used large bore firearms that fired a relativly by todays standards slow heavy projectile - they kill game quickly and cleanly and don't need a marketing tap dance to do it .

regards Jacko


"To my deep mortification my father once said to me, "You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family."

                                                      Charles Darwin

Offline BBF

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2009, 04:54:17 AM »
So a centre fire pump rifle is OK in Oz?
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline kombi1976

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2009, 05:40:45 AM »
Yep.
But a pump shotgun requires a special licence that is really difficult to get and only really allowed to farmers.
However you're allowed to have a lever action shotgun like Winchester replicas.
Stupid, right?
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline BBF

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2009, 06:25:53 AM »
I presume the thinking is that a pump shotgun with an extended mag is useful for after hours banking .
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Jacko

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2009, 09:47:08 AM »
BBF it's all about perceptions . For some reason a pump action shotgun and a semi auto .22 rifle are perceived as being more destructive in the hands of a nut than other repeating firearms such as lever actions . These types of firearms where used in some firearm related mass murders over the years and the authorities decided particular inanimate objects where intrinsically evil not the perpetrators of these crimes .

Changing attitudes in society , sensationalist media reporting , rubbish coming out of Hollywood all play a part in creating perceptions and myths formed out of ignorance . As much as this is a back handed compliment , ex PM Howard is one of the smartest politicians Australia has had and he played the media and peoples ignorance beatifully to push his own aganda .

Back to the original topic . The way that society is changing now the lessons Kombi talked about are even more valuable . My Dad come hunting with me when I was 17 and his health was still good and all the stories he told me as a kid that I didn't quite believe about growing up in the 30's and 40's in rural NSW suddenly came into focus . Hints like Thistle boils up nice in a stew [ his favourite was Sparrow and Thistle stew   ??? ] and Dandelion roots are edible . Stinging Nettle makes a nice green tea and the boiled leaves a good spinach like side dish . Bracken Fern which usually grows near Stinging Nettle - rub the scrunched up leaves over Stinging Neetle irritation and it stops the irritation . Blackboy [ a type of grass tree ] is also edible , the core at the base of the needle like leaves , sorta taste's like cabbage .

Twice the old bugger  ;D shot rabbits that burst from cover with his faithfull old model 62 pump action rifle from the hip , most amazing shots I have ever seen , near 30 years on and that trip is still fresh in my memory . Hunt the shadows , walk half way up the gully's banks investigate that hollow . I am more comfortable hunting the New England Ranges than the Sth West dry country as a result of those lessons as I know nearly enough so I can feed myself and find water - out west is a differant ball game altogether .

regards Jacko
"To my deep mortification my father once said to me, "You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family."

                                                      Charles Darwin

Offline BBF

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2009, 06:08:01 AM »
Thanks for the post Jacko, I might have to run away from this place and Oz is probably a good choice being there are few places left I would feel comfortable with :(.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline kombi1976

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Re: Learning the craft
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 03:11:36 AM »
There are definitely places in Oz where if you kept your head down and could stand the extremes of the weather (heat and rain) then you'd be bothered by few and could do pretty much as you wish.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"