Case Master Dispair

[AtlLaw]

I played with my new toy, the RCBS Case Master GB sold me, some more the other night and am more disenchanted then ever!     I grabbed 24 .358 Win cases, reformed Federal .308's that had been fired in my M99.  After initial polishing I sat down with the case master.  Neck runout measured .002 on 5 cases, .003 on 3 and .004 on 16.  Hummmm, interesting.  I'm not sure why, but interesting.   

So, keeping the groups of cases seperate, I very carefully resized them: full length, Redding dies, Hornady One Shot lube and the inside of the necks lubed with Lee lube from a tube.  Then I remeasured the neck runout.  It was all over the chart from .001 to .008, most cases being at the high end, and one piece of brass measuring .016!   

I tell ya boys, getting this gauge has been like getting married.  You pay money to be miserable!     Now, for my own peace of mind, I'm going to have to measure every piece of brass before I seat a bullet and then again after I seat the bullet!  I've just got to know how they end up!   

Then I 'spose I'll segregate them by the amount of runout and fire groups based on that.

Knowing me, after this batch is fired I will measure them again, compare the measurement with the first measurements, then size them without an expander button in the sizing die and see if that makes any difference.   

If not I will HAVE TO buy a neck turning tool and turn all the necks and repeat the process... 

I'd have more fun taking the new recoil pad off my 45-120 and shooting it a hundred times from the bench... 

[Luckyducker]

AtlLaw, you are going to be as crazy as a sh!+house mouse before you finally find someone to take that thing away from you!  Have you noticed how Bill isn't so grumpy since he passed this demon oracle into your willing hands.  Hee Hee  Haw Haw

[Badnews Bob]

Sounds like a canidate for the pay it forward forum to me, Put that thing under something and open some shim stock.

[wncchester]

First thing you learn with a concentricity gage is that the die brands you had total trust in often suck.  I soon found that there is as much difference between dies from the same brand vary as much as between brands.

We can't load straight ammo in cases with bent necks and most conventonal sizers do bend necks.  I have finally gone entirely to Lee Collet Neck Sizers and body/shoulder bump dies for the cartridges I want to shoot their best.  (not 30-30)

[LaOtto222]

I did not comment on your other posts about this "tool". I have the exact same one, I used it to start with and now it sets on a shelf gathering dust, but I might bring it out again to start up aggravation, life has been good lately.

On a more serious note - Try to loosen the expander ball stem (do not tighten the lock ring on a Redding die) - let it float in the die a little. Some times when it is tighten up, it will pull the brass to one side or the other. By floating the stem it will self center when you pull it back out. Check out the brass after doing this and see if your necks have less run out. Another way to check neck run out caused by a die - mark your brass before sizing for orientation just before sizing to see if the stem is pulling the neck to the same side each time. Try this - it will not cost a dime and may help you keep the necks from having so much run out. The necks must have little run out to have bullets seat with little run out. Seating a bullet will only make it worse.

When seating bullets the shape of the seater can make a difference in run out with the bullet. As the bullet enters the bullet seater, if it is allowed to not center exactly into the seater even a little it will cause run out. That is why some folks pay a whole lot more for precision seaters that hold the case neck and bullet in good alignment before the bullet is seated. There is some "slop" in a regular die that lets the bullet cock to one side or the other. I have used RCBS, Forster and Redding "competition" seaters. I like the RCBS one, it is easy to use, you get the case started into the thing and then drop a bullet into a window in the side. I bought one in 222 Remington years ago and have found that I can use it with 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball, and 223. I suspect it could be used with any .224 bullet and a 222 family case. I have also used Forster and Redding competition seating dies and they work good too. I still can not get every bullet/neck perfectly, but do a better job than before. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[Graybeard]

I tried to warn you grasshopper.  But did you listen?  Nooooo.  Now you more clearly understand why it was gathering dust and why I told ya you'd regret buying it from me. 

[AtlLaw]

Okay, I sat down last night and remeasured each piece of brass and lined them up according to amount of runout.  As I said, the range was from .001 to .008, most being on the high side.  Oh, and there was that ONE piece at .016.  Unable to control myself, I loaded 3 rounds from the .005 group of brass.  The bullet runout measured .009 +/-.   

So I sat there, staring at the little lines of brass, coming to the conclusion that I could go back to chasin' wicked wimmins and have less aggrivation.  Then I pulled the expander ball from the die, grabbed the case with the .016 amount of runout and ran it up into the die.  It came out .001!   

I quickly resized every case with runout over .003 and they ALL came out .001 or .002!     At one point during this fit of resizing I put the stem back in the die but didn't lock it down.  Runout immediately went up.  Not as much, but over .004 on the cases tried.   

Immagonna reload that brass tonight.  My biggest concern now is, seein that the case mouth hasn't been expanded, that it will be so tight I'll have a problem seating the bullet.     180 gr Speer SNFP.  If I do, I spose I'll have to get a neck turning tool and reduce the thickness of the neck so I have a larger ID of the neck after sizing.   

What a pain...    If I can't snap out of this I woun't have time to deer hunt, I'll be to busy still trying to find a load capable of hitting a 100 lb deer at 50 yards!    I wish I'd never found out that all that ammo I've been loading all these years wasn't fit to put in a rifle.     Who started this runout crap anyway!?     I don't remember JOC ever mentioning it!   

P.S.  Okay Bill, that's Christians 2, Lions 0   

[Badnews Bob]

You need to check the runout on some shim stock containers after you check to see if the bottoms clean or not.