Author Topic: Brand New and a few quick Q's  (Read 477 times)

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Offline cbxboy

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Brand New and a few quick Q's
« on: March 25, 2009, 04:59:13 PM »
Hey,

A quick few questions on getting going here with Cast.  I have loaded soem Red Dot and Unique rounds in the past with jacketed rounds and was pleased.  Now that I have reciever rifle caliber Cast bulets a couple new things came up :o

I picked up some 165 Grain .30 cal cast bullets and they look great.  Loading on top of a light load of Unique and was puzzled as I thought....hmmmmm, Blue waxy is the lube, Soooooo do I need to lube additionally before loading and firing??  I assumed the lube has been applied and is ready to load and fire.
Please correct if wrong.

Next up is seating depth......just how far do I set this into the 30.06?  What is my OAL supposed to be??  I am still relatively new to reloading and I started to scratch my head on that one.  It APPEARS on the cast bullet that I would seat rather deep.

Help???   

Tim
 
And thianks for answering the "easy" quesitons, I need  little reassurance as I get into another NEW thing.

Offline bilmac

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Re: Brand New and a few quick Q's
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 09:57:34 PM »
The blue wax is the lube you don't need anything more. There is a crimping Groove ,that is the top groove on almost every cast bullet. I don't crimp exvept if they are going to be used in tube mags, but I normally seat just deep enough to cover up that top groove.

Offline cbxboy

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Re: Brand New and a few quick Q's
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2009, 07:18:22 AM »
Bilmac,

Thanks much for your reply.  I had assumed this but the extra reassurance is nice.

Seating down to the crimpr groove sure seemed like I was seating deep.  The bullets are a 165gr RNFP and it just looked strane to seat that deep.  I suppose the point at which it encounters the rifling will be about the same though huh?  Meaning the pointed bullets don't impact rifling any sooner than a flat nose ;)  the .309 is not at the tip ;D

Thanks again.  And yes I am starting my Unique load right in the middle, not too much and not too little.

Offline blhof

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Re: Brand New and a few quick Q's
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 07:51:04 AM »
For my single shooters, I test load a bullet just above the lube groove and try to chamber and repeat til it just chambers.  This is my max accuracy loading, as the bullet engages the rifling with a minimum chance of lateral movement.  If your gun has a long throat, this procedure might not be possible.

Offline bilmac

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Re: Brand New and a few quick Q's
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009, 12:51:30 PM »
If you are going for max accuracy, you might want to experiment with seating so the bullet is just short of the lands like blhof said. Sometimes you won't be able to seat them out that far and still fit the magazine. I usually cover up that front grove so that it doesn't collect crud. Most bullet lubes are sticky, and oftentimes some of it finds it's way into the top groove and if it's left exposed it just reaches out and grabs dirt.

Offline Sweetwater

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Re: Brand New and a few quick Q's
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 01:30:08 PM »
"Seating down to the crimp groove sure seemed like I was seating deep.  The bullets are a 165gr RNFP and it just looked strange to seat that deep.  I suppose the point at which it encounters the rifling will be about the same though huh?  Meaning the pointed bullets don't impact rifling any sooner than a flat nose   the .309 is not at the tip"

The answer to this question is based on that shape of the bullet. In this scenerio, we are assuming a box magazine. "Normally" a round nose or flat point bullet cannot be loaded as long as a pointed bullet. A pointed bullet "normally" has a longer taper, so is smaller in dia at any given point beyond the mouth of the case. When a cartridge is loaded into the chamber, a pointed bullet can extend into the barrel further than can a round or flat pointed bullet - due to the aforementioned taper of the bullet nose. "Normally" is in quotes as there are exceptions to every statement. Another variable can be the size/length of the chamber throat. This also effects how a bullet needs to be seated.

So you see, a pointed bullet seated to "touch the rifling" or "just short of the rifling" will engage the rifling the same as a round nose bullet seated to "touch the rifling" or "just short of the rifling" - even though the two cartridges will be very different in overall length. Also, they will require very different powder charges due to the "difference in available powder space". With a box magazine, you can seat the bullet at any depth you want to within the limitations of your magazine and your chamber. Anything else is pure personal taste or something you found that your particular rifle liked to produce performance.
Basically, you make your cartridge to work in your rifle, not someone elses. Books and Mentors are guides. Your rifle is the Bottom Line. It will dictate something it does or doesn't like. You just have to be observant, and "listen". Let your rifle and your targets talk to you. Remember what works in one rifle may very well not work in another. They are all individuals, with the same basics - like people or dogs.
Some actions have magazines which do not allow the bullet to be seated long enough to come close to the rifling. An example would be XYZ action chambered in ABCsuperfly needs a coal of 2.88" (typical short action) but to feed reliably, the coal has to be retricted to 2.75" due to magazine design. You disdain over this malady, until you get to the range and find a 2.75" cartridge not only feeds superbly, but does a fine job downrange! Ah, the trill of victory!! There are few perfect things, expecially on paper. Perfection becomes in the hands of the shooter; whether the target be paper, steel, or for the freezer, it all comes out the same. "What can you make it do for you." Read all you can find, "listen" to others, and never be afraid to try something, always following a safe path. If it sounds crazy, it just might be. If it sounds dangerous, it probably is, at least until you get experienced. We preach safety for a reason. Stay safe.

Your job is to make your ammunition fit your rifle and make it shoot properly - safely.

Regards,
Sweewater
Regards,
Sweetwater

Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway - John Wayne

The proof is in the freezer - Sweetwater

Offline cbxboy

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Re: Brand New and a few quick Q's
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2009, 05:55:38 PM »
Thanks so much for all the responces. I tried on earlier today from work and it didn't go through.

I am aware that the closer to the lands when the hanner falls the better/possibly the accuracy can become.  I am however still relatively newer into reloading and will hold off for now on closing that gap.  As I bring it closer I may have prressures climbing higher than I expect. AS I get more experience I will certainly move into more accuracy.

Right now I have enjoyed reloading and have MOST enjoyed using reduced load rounds.  I took the above advice especially the one regarding lube/goop attrcting dirt etc.  SO I left 10 rounds where I have them set now and turned the seating die a few turns and reseated a little deeper...they do look better.

All above understood and MOST APPRECIATED.  Thanks for the reassurance as I play....SweetWater, love the comments.  It matched my person.  Safely and slowly "have fun and play" within limits.  By this I mean I like to reload .06, 8mm, x39 etc to shoot and enjoy the heck out of it, if its only going 1100Fps what do I care???