Author Topic: Chamber Adapters/Barrel Inserts? (Read 1970 times)

myarmor · « **on:** March 17, 2009, 10:43:49 AM »

I have seen these around now for some time and have read very little from people that have actually tried them out. I have searched some, but still didn't come up with much.
I was thinking about the 7.62x39 adapter in a 308 mainly, though the barrel inserts for shotguns looks like they could be fun too.
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm
http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

And is it reasonable to think that they could be accurate with so much bullet jump?
I would love to hear some feedback on this.

-Aaron

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:05:15 PM »

OK: Here is my story and I'm sticking to it!

I had been wanting to get some chamber adaptors from mcace for some time, a 7.62 x 39 and a .32 acp that would fit my .303 British rifle, and I emailed, called, called, and emailed several times, and couldn't ever get in touch with them so I gave that up.

I ended up reading an add from Sportsmans Guide, and ordered the .32 acp adaptor for my .303 rifle.

I read where you have to polish the adaptor as it won't just drop in and fit, and when I got mine I found this to be true. Not wanting to force it, I took some emery cloth and took it down to the bare metal as it had a hard black finish on it.

It finally fit and ejected like a regular round, which is what I wanted and not a permanent fit by using locktite.

It shoots really accurate out to about 40 yards grouping shoots into about the size of a lemon, but beyond that they open up to about grapefruit size at 50 yards.

At 80 yards you could possibly still hit a basketball, but it was a lot of fun, and it would make a heck of survival tool if you had to pack light, and would be ideal for taking small game at close range and then when you needed it you load a full house load and take larger game, or whatever.

The barrel inserts seem to be pretty cool, but for the same price I believe you can buy a barrel thru the classified section and have what amounts to a real rifle barrel.

Hope you have better luck than I did if you try to contack mcace.com.

myarmor · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:35:09 PM »

I remember seeing those over at the SG. I believe I will pick one up and give it a go. As for the inserts, well ya can't find many a 9mm, 40S&W, and 45ACP barrels around unless they are a stub project or a custom. And for $65+ I would be willing to give it a go but I wanted to see if anyone has given them a try. The little 32 could prove to be fun. So the adapter just pops out every time you go to reload huh?

moxgrove · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:51:30 PM »

I have played with the insert. It is a 30-30 for 20 ga. You have to turn it and shoot to find the sweet spot where it hits to point of aim or close anyways. I used orings and pop can shims to get mine where It was shooting point of aim at 70 yards and called it good. at 100 yards it gets 4 inch groups using hi vis turkey sights.
It was fun to goof around with. Did I gain anything over a rifled choke tube in the top barrel instead/ Maybe.
I am going to see what a 170 gr. cast bulletand Unique might do out to 40 yards or so. A nice quiet load with fair momentum, I hope

trotterlg · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:52:53 PM »

Here is a Hornet for a 12 gauge I built for Quick this winter when we had a lot of snow. I don't know if he has shot it, but it even has an ejector built in. Larry

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,160165.msg1098710803.html#msg1098710803

myarmor · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:03:52 PM »

Moxgrove- What length is the insert you are using? Does aanyone have a good pic for me to get a better idea how these fit up? Does sound like fun though.. sometimes thats all that matters.

Larry- Nice work buddy, I have watched your work sense I can remember and you always poped out some interesting stuff.... anychance you could work up me a 7.62x39 project?

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:04:59 PM »

Quote from: myarmor on March 17, 2009, 01:35:09 PM

So the adapter just pops out every time you go to reload huh?

Yes it is the same size as a regular .303 shell, and it ejects the adaptor along with the spent round.

I was able to eject the adaptor, catch it with my left hand before it left the chamber and just flip the spent round, and put in another round, put the round in the chamber and close the bolt, in a sort of rythem.

Sounds like a lot, but actually I was able to do it without looking, and it seemed to be just a little slower than a regular handi rifle loading using an extractor.

No need to carry another rifle or barrel as the adaptor fits into your shirt pocket just like a spent round, and a small box of .32 acp goes a long way, and also fits into a pocket.

Would be great hiking back into the boonies and only carry one rifle.

myarmor · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:17:12 PM »

Sounds cool. I wonder how well it would work in a Handi. Well I guess I will find out soon

moxgrove · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:20:30 PM »

I sprang for the 18" It looks a lot like the inserts you can put in to turn a shotgun to a smaller gauge.

myarmor · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:38:40 PM »

mox- did you drill and tap the shotgun barrel that you use for this?
What other loads have you used in it? From the sound of it you didn't Loc-tite it in I suppose, so you just plug it in when you want?

moxgrove · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:43:35 PM »

I put on hi viz turkey sights that go on the rib. I did it in the top barrel of a Baikal 20 ga o/u. I messed around with it for weeks. I used my regular load using 125 spire points and h335. I stayed with one load and then kept turning the adapter every two shots for a quarter turn I circled the position on the target using a 2inch bullseye and once i got to the point where the windage was close, I marked the adapter with a scribe mark to top dead center and the top edge of the receiver with a line of nail polish to be able to repeat.
Well, That didn't quite work. The next time i took it out, it a little right and a lot low. I was able to adjust the sights for the windage and let it cool. I then took it in and out several times to be sure it would go.
Once that battle was done, I tackled the elevation issue. I could not get it up to more than 5 inches low at 40 yards. I ended up making a couple of shims 6 inches long and abou ta half inch wide and experimented with putting pressure under the insert from the barrel end. It was a royal pia. I ended up cutting one 1 and a half inch long and holding it in place with an o-ring. It was a bear to get it fully inserted and stay in place. I ended up grinding a flat on the muzzle end of the insert and epoxying the shim in place and a spot of solder that I ground down. til I could get it all the way in. This put enough upward pressure that it was about 2 inches high. I left it as is and put an o-ring about an inch below ,I coated it with graphite powder to help it slip in easier. Anyway, after all this ,I got to the point I told about already.
I plan on trying some cast bullets and 10 gr or so of 2400 for a light, penetrating load. Kind of a super 32-20 and see how it does for small game. In my lever gun it hits to the sights at 25 yards where my deer load hits at 100.

Like I said, it was fun for the challenge. It probably doesn't have any real world advantage over using the top barrel for slugs and the bottom for shot as far as versatility goes, but so what?

mechanic · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:57:56 PM »

Buddy of mine bought two 45-70 inserts for his sxs 12 ga. Shoots to MOBarnDoor. Have to eject the insert, punch out the spent case and reload. When I saw it I though it might be a poor man's sxs, but its just basically an aggravation.

myarmor · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2009, 05:32:58 PM »

Mox- thanks for the info. You really worked with it didn't you

Thanks for posting any info you can.
Sometimes it's a challenge that is all it takes and it's on. I have an old Turk Mauser that I have been playing with for sometime, but I keep going back to it.

Mec- Yeah, when I saw the 45/70 in there, my intuition told me that one could be asking for problems. But smaller rounds caught my eye as doable.

Jimbo- I wonder what kind of velocities you are getting out of the 32 in your 303 barrel? What fodder does yours like?

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2009, 03:31:21 AM »

I have been trying to get info on an insert for my 45/70 buffalo clasic to shoot .22's at an indoor range,but none of the companys give any idea how they fit or eject.If I am going to pay $150.00 I would like to know.

petemi · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2009, 04:27:32 AM »

For the price of an insert, I'd just buy the rifle. You could get a .22 Sportster for that. They seem like the cartridge converters for cap and ball revolvers. Right up around 300 bucks. I just went ahead and bought my Blackhawk.

Pete

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #15 on:** March 18, 2009, 05:41:16 AM »

The idea of the insert in the BC is to train offhand shooting with what you shoot in matchs,but can use at indoor ranges.

petemi · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2009, 06:09:29 AM »

I understand that, but when you send a .22 down a much larger barrel, you have no idea what it's doing. So what's the point? You might as well just dry fire it and save a bunch of bucks.

Pete

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #17 on:** March 18, 2009, 07:37:55 AM »

Trigger and breathing control mainly,and at 50 ft. it should show point of aim.This is what the experts in BP long range say.

petemi · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2009, 10:02:28 AM »

I'll yield to the experts, but breathing and trigger control can be done dry firing. I don't believe accuracy at 50 feet is going to show you diddly squat. It'll hit the paper....in different places.

Pete

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2009, 10:21:15 AM »

If I do try one,I'll let you know how it hits.I do put in alot of draw and dry fire with the 1911,but you do miss the bang.

petemi · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2009, 11:21:04 AM »

Kid, let me know if you do try one. It's my cheapassed self that tells me it's too much to spend on a comparably useless toy. It seems to me, with no tight rifling to run through, there has to be a dramatic loss of velocity, trajectory and accuracy....all of which is in no way relevant to the chambered round. Also, do you want to change your sights to compensate for it and then change them back for the real bullet? It might be great for popping cans off a fence post at 25 yards, but so what. I have an old Red Ryder that does that just fine at about zero cost.

Pete

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2009, 11:56:06 AM »

I should have mentioned the unit i am looking at is 18 ins. long and fits into chamber and barrel,so I think if you can hit a 50 ft. target with a 2 in. .22 pistol it should be fairly accurate.

myarmor · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2009, 05:01:36 PM »

First off dry firing a Handi is just bad news anyway you do it. The transfer bar just doesn't like it at all even if cushioned. I have broke 2 trying to be easy.... no more.
So a little high jack there on the thread, but if you see the importance on a 22 adapter in your BC then who's from stopping you? If it helps your intented purpose more power too you.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2009, 02:41:15 AM »

Quote from: myarmor on March 17, 2009, 05:32:58 PM

Jimbo- I wonder what kind of velocities you are getting out of the 32 in your 303 barrel? What fodder does yours like?

Don't have any idea as all I did was buy a box of 32 acp and I can't even remember the brand or bullet grain, but it shot about as I expected for a workable close range 40 yard small game rifle.

What I really liked is absolutely no recoil with a heavy rifle, and the adaptor is so compact you can carry it in your pocket.

The cartridges aren't as cheap as .22's, but then you couldn't shoot a .22 through the bore without an insert, and then you have all the issues related to poi as stated above.

The .32 hits the target using the scope I have sighted in for my .303 180 grain Winchester power points, so no need to adjust the sights when I want to change between the two cartridges.

Like I said, it's a useful tool that is cheap, and doesn't alter the original firearm at least in my case, and is a lot of fun to shoot, so the entertainment value is worth it if nothing else.

I was curious as to how far out I could hit somthing that I aimed at, and I set a small coffee can out at 80 yards and to my amazement I was able to hit it 7 out of 10 shots.

In my opinion the adaptors are worth the money, but the inserts are a little bit more of a pain than what they are worth. JMHO!

myarmor · « **Reply #24 on:** March 19, 2009, 05:31:10 AM »

True and hey at $15 why not give it a try. I am not so sure me using one in my 30-06 will be as accurate sence my barrel has a .308 bore, but I guess we will see. Who knows, I may even keep my eye out for a used die set later down the road and reload a few, though I hear they are a pain to load. I
guess I am a sucker for novelty sometimes

moxgrove · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2009, 05:58:38 AM »

I would think the chamber adapter would be a fairly easy way to go. I didn't want to imply that I wasn't happy with my little experiment. Like I say , the fun is in the journey not the destination

. I wouldn't think the small overbore issue would matter when using the low pressure round. Like how people sometimes shoot the 38-55 in .375 winchester rifles. No harm and usually decent accuracy too. I would think the issue would be in the tolerences and how concentric the adapter is to the bore.

myarmor · « **Reply #26 on:** March 23, 2009, 01:18:05 PM »

Well I got my 32ACP chamber insert today for my 30-06 and it fit perfectly, no slop and not too tight as to not eject. Should be fun if nothing else, and a cheap thrill I suppose.
Now if I can russle up some 32 ammo... $:-\$