re: opinions needed Pyrodex vs. Black Powder

[Type99]

Hello...

I would like to get people's opinions on the issue of using Pyrodex vs. Black Powder.  Pyrodex works fine in my TC White Mountain Carbine, and even my Remington New Model Army, but it doesn't seem to work a damn in my Zouave or my original rifle muskets.  In my Zouave, there is a noticeable delay before the powder charge ignites.

Have other people had this sort of experience with Pyrodex?  How many people use Pyrodex in their original or repro Civil War era arms?  For myself, with these guns, I want to use original black powder.

What do others think?

Thanks, Gary

[Semisane]

My Zouave shoots Pyrodex RS with no problem.  I seem to get a tad bit better accuracy with GOEX when using charges of equal volume, but that may be because of the velocity difference between the two.

[S.S.]

As blackpowder has become next to impossible to get in my area,
it is a mute point in my personal circumstance. I do know that
I have to grind pyrodex into a fine dust for my flintlock pan
for it to go off reliably.

[Longknife 76]

As blackpowder has become next to impossible to get in my area,

There are many powder sources that will ship it right to your door!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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[coyotejoe]

I've had good luck with Pyrodex in percussion rifles, shotguns, revolvers, and cartridges. I mostly shoot Goex black because of my love of flintlocks. To use Pyrodex in a flintlock you must use a primer of say 10 grains black down the barrel first, then a charge of Pyrodex and of course prime the pan with black. Both black powder and the substitutes require proper cleaning with water soon after firing. I don't find one any easier than the other to clean. If you don't like to swab the bore between shots you may find easier loading and better accuracy with Pyrodex. There really is not much difference in terms of velocity and pressure between the "RS" and the "P" grades of Pyrodex but the smaller granules of "P" will better flow into the flash channel of some rifles for more reliable ignition.

[Glanceblamm]

That Pyrodex is just harder to light with the standard #11 caps. I had my first misfire (that was not my fault) while using it and was not about to have this happen while deer hunting so I stick with the BP.

[Type99]

Thanks for those opinions.  The general consensus seems to be that Pyrodex works about as fine as black powder.  I think when I get my Zouave back from the gunsmith, I will try it again with Pyrodex, with one critical difference:  I will put a little flintlock priming pan powder down the nipple to insure instantaneous ignition.  I don't t think I have ever tried that.

Thanks,
Gary

[necchi]

There are many powder sources that will ship it right to your door!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alot of guy's can't come-up with the money for/or have the need for a 5 pound minimum purchase. And that darn $20 Haz-Mat fee drives the price of a single pound to around $40! It took me 3 yrs to convince the local club to buy a case of Goex, and it took a year to sell it!

 I've never had reliable luck with Pyrodex, it's is good stuff, If used as a "LAWN FERTILIZER!

Hodgodon also makes Triple 7 (T7). This stuff is hotter and faster burning. Much like a "sporting" grade powder. It's cost more per pound but volume charges can be dropped by 10-15% so you use less. I use this stuff in my cap locks almost exclusivley w/RWS Dynimite Nobel caps and have eliminated all troubles with miss fires and hangfires! The infamous "crud ring" from T7 does exist, but as it's in or near the loaded charge area of the barrel it causes NO trouble. I've been using T7 in the same barrels for years now and they still have the same tournement winnig accuracy as always
 I still use Black in my rock tossers though.
 Why go to the trouble of pulling the nipple each time? just put a premeasured 5-10 grains down the bore, give it a tap buy the lock to fill the channel, then top off with the lawn fertilizer. It's interesting that the pellet style of this stuff does have a small circle of true black in the center of one side of the pellet, Hodgdon even knows it's not hot enough to ignite from a cap.

[Semisane]

Instead of a starter charge of black powder, try Pyrodex P (pistol) for your main charge.  It's a finer grain of powder and ignites quite easily.

[beethoven]

I would try Triple 7 in the Zouve, been using it in percussion for about 5 years and always been happy with it. Tried dropping 5grs. of 4f black under a load of ttt7 in flintlocks. It works and was accurate but with having to clean bp fouling it wasnt worth the effort, so stick with real bp in flintlocks.

[mcwoodduck]

i use Pyrodex in both of my front stuffer rifles, .50 T/C Grey hawk (64 grains of RS and a round ball) and a .58 Zuave( 56 grains of RS with a 525 grain minieball) plus I have been loading it in paper shot shells for a couple of old damascus side by side I have.
Works great.  I have played with both the RS and the P in the shot shells.  I wanted to see if the P would give me a hotter load with it being a finer grain and more by volume. Most shops are able to get pyrodex as it can be shipped easier than Black as well as here in CA they need permits from the fire departments to carry more than a pound or two of Black.

[Ladobe]

I shoot the so called traditional sidelock reproductions only - both flint and percussion and connsider them primitive firearms.   Wouldn't be caught dead with one of them other modern things they call MLer's that are anything but primitive.   So I also only shoot black.   Pretty sure the play powder subs were not around when folks carried the real sidelocks.      So, I'm not going to shoot them in mine either.

[DennyRoark]

The only differences I've noticed are that you can shoot more rounds with Pyro before cleaning and it is corrosive as all get out.  You need to clean THOROUGHLY as soon as you get home!  Pyro RS has always shot well in my 2 T/C Hawkens, but a couple of "quick swabs, I'll clean it later" ruined my first barrel.  T/C #13 has made it easier to clean up since then.

[surveyor47]

I notice a HUGE difference between Pyrodex and Black Powder. Pyrodex and Triple7 are best in inlines.  Black Powder is best in caplocks. Why?

T/C caplocks tend to hangfire with Pyrodex, particularly if you use Bore Butter.  The greater the bore diameter, the greater the tendency to hangfire and I have used every trick I can think of to eliminate it. 

Civil War muskets were intended for Black Powder and thats what they work best with.

Inlines can really benefit from the BP substitutes, some such as Triple 7 being much cleaner than Black Powder, with excellent accuracy and superior ballistics.  They didnt go to 209 Primers because the substitutes were easy to ignite! I think that Black Powder is the wrong propellant for an inline- period.  Inlines other than the T/C Omega tend to be too complicated with too many small parts that have to be taken apart and cleaned. This is where Triple 7 really comes into its own.

I have found Pyrodex to be far more corrosive than Black Powder.  I have seen several guns ruined by Pyrodex and have noted that my guns have to be absolutely clean not to develop corrosion months after season.  I now use the Ballistol as a preservative on my inlines because of this.  Break Free doesnt seem to make it over the long haul.   

[rickt300]

I have used Pyrodex RS in my Zouave ,TC Renegade and Firehawk with zero problems getting them to go off in a timely manner.  I have found Pyrodex to be harder to clean out of my guns and more corrosive than black powder.

[kitchawan kid]

I too would like to use BP,but the price is just to much, 5 lbs. min. and local stores will not handle it because of insurance would increase to much and they would need an opproved powder storage.

[Swampman]

The general consensus seems to be that Pyrodex works about as fine as black powder.

Correct

Cleaning & corrosivness are the same as Goex.

In caplocks, both Pyrodex & 777 work just fine.  I use them to save money & to save my real blackpowder for my flintlock.

Bore Butter belongs in the trash can.

[sproulman]

my opinion,stay with GEOX  bp in flintlock rifles.

use others in the in-lines.

[surveyor47]

You can order BP by the case from http://www.powderinc.com/

They will deliver it right to your home address. Find a couple of buddies who shoot BP and split up the case. 

[JPShelton]

Instead of a starter charge of black powder, try Pyrodex P (pistol) for your main charge.  It's a finer grain of powder and ignites quite easily.

When I have to shoot Pyrodex in my .50 Great Plains Rifle, it is the "P" version and NOT the "RS" version that I prefer to use.

I don't have any ignition issues with it.  I can use a little less of it to get the velocity I want.  Because of this, there is less fouling.  The rifle also shoots better groups with "P" than "RS".

I'd rather use real balckpowder but I shoot muzzleloaders a lot and go through a lot of powder and can't always get the real thing, so have to make due with Pyrodex "P".

-JP

[sproulman]

geox in a FLINTLOCK