Author Topic: Waco... Whats your thoughts? (Read 14801 times)

Cabin4 · « **Reply #120 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:40:49 PM »

Waco was initiated and managed by the idiots at BATF and FBI. Janet Reno, gave the order for them to storm the compound in the end that resulted in the fire. She went on TV and personally admitted to giving the order. Yet, Clinton supported her instead of kicking her pathic tail out of that job.

ms · « **Reply #121 on:** February 26, 2009, 01:48:03 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on October 27, 2006, 03:11:31 AM

There was absolutely NO EXCUSE for the way it came down. If they wanted to serve a warrant they should have just walked up to the front door during daylight and did so. But oh no, they went in AT NIGHT and not thru the front door either but climbed in an upstairs window. They KNEW this was gonna spark trouble and when gunfire erupted this was then used as an excuse for all that followed. It was as blatantly illegal as what happened at Ruby Ridge and just as inexcuseable.

That's the nwo for us.

borrowed time · « **Reply #122 on:** April 05, 2009, 04:25:38 PM »

Clinton should have been arrested for bringing in the Delta Force. This was, in effect, an attempt to see how far they could push the American people. I predict you will see Waco and Ruby Ridge very shortly, with Rahm Emanuel chief of staff in the White House. He was also Clinton's right hand man. Read up on him sometime.

wncchester · « **Reply #123 on:** April 08, 2009, 09:46:35 AM »

"Don't worry about the economy or the constitution. Both are already or shortly will be distant objects in our rear view mirrors."

Both are already in our rear view mirrors. Receeding into the distance now.

I've heard it called socialism but having the gov. run business is facisism. It takes a dictatorship/over bearing government and the force of gov. guns, to even attempt to make either "system" work. Unless something I don't now see happens, we are too far past the turning point to make it change.

Sadly, a large percentage of Republican politicians are bad. Democat politicians are bad to the bone. Not much comfort to be found in government by either side, we can only choose from bad or worse.

ironglow · « **Reply #124 on:** April 09, 2009, 12:58:53 AM »

Perhaps it is time to give Glenn Beck's 912 project another look ! This is not "for" Democrats or Republicans, but for the many Americans who say, " a pox on both their houses"! Let's start all over again with a "Second American Revolution"..hopefully, a peaceful one..
Join the tea perties if you can... Try this website.... http://www.the912project.com/
Be sure you get the correct address, there are many fake, closely labeled, sites obviously created by status-quo political forces, some even asking for donations..

coyotejoe · « **Reply #125 on:** April 25, 2009, 06:42:35 AM »

It seems pretty clear that Waco was intended to be a great public relations coup for the BATF but it got away from them because they are as incompetent as they are corrupt. They had a search warrant they very well knew would never hold up in court but that didn't matter to them. It was never their intention to make arrests and obtain convictions. They had invited the local media to attend because it would make great coverage to show agents emerging with armloads of weapons and ammo, dumping them into a pile and proclaiming "ATF, the thin blue line between you and these nuts". It would run on TV news, coast to coast for days. Then, a couple of months later, when all charges were dropped and the weapons returned because of a "technicality", that would just be a blip in the local papers. That is the way they hoped it would play out and they believed if they struck with overwhelming force there would be no resistance but the problem was that they couldn't control their own storm troopers.
I still vividly recall seeing the original news coverage while the assault was in progress. I saw Karish walk out while the troops were shouting "Federal agents with a warrant". Karish said "well it would have been better if you had called first", turned around and walked the few steps back to the door and was standing in the door, holding it open, when POP POP POP, he doubled over, hit with the very first rounds fired, stumbled back and closed the door.
That footage was seen only the first morning and never again because the FBI confiscated it. Much later, when the surviving Davidians were put on trial, the defense subpoenaed that footage and the front door of the compound which the FBI had also taken and the FBI claimed both were "lost".

BuckLoner · « **Reply #126 on:** April 30, 2009, 01:35:13 PM »

Quote from: victorcharlie on October 30, 2006, 01:44:12 AM

So.......what's the difference between a patriot and a terriorist?

that just depends on which side is giving you the answer .

wareagleguy · « **Reply #127 on:** April 30, 2009, 01:53:02 PM »

I didn't read all the posts but sounds like most here think this is just a federal issue. Yes, Waco was a federal FU but don't think for one second that your local government will not do this...cause they will.

BuckLoner · « **Reply #128 on:** April 30, 2009, 01:57:24 PM »

I watched a documentary on HBO 6 or 8 years ago about this fiasco .
Part of this documentary had the company that developed F.L.I.R. technology and the guy that invented FLIR examine video that had been shot from a single engine airplane that was "on station " over the compound for many hours and had filmed quite a bit of footage leading up to and including the final assault and the ensueing fire that engulfed the compound . The examination shown . according to the rep of the company , that the FBI started the fires deliberately. The examination of the film directly contradicted the testimony that the FBI gave in re:to that fact . This documentary also shown that physical evidence of the " crime scene " was deliberately altered and/or destroyed by the FBI and other LEOs involved.

ironglow · « **Reply #129 on:** May 01, 2009, 12:42:32 AM »

Buckloner;
I saw that same documentary, not on HBO but on another Sat channel. That was part of the testimony given I belive, to the House committee that was "impartially investigating" the Waco murders. It was made into a documentary which title I can't recall..something like "Decision at Waco" or some such title.
The company rep that testified was the engineer/scientist that developed the FLIR system. http://www.flir.com/US/ He went over the FLIR imaging taken at the time, primarily but not exclusively, from the air by chopper and he proved for most of those who watched, that the Clintonistas and their partners in crime..ATF & FBI were lying.
Obviously, at least the majority of the politicians (of either party) on that commission were willing to throw the Branch Davidians...and our Constitution.."under the bus" in favor of their own comfortable job!

bilmac · « **Reply #130 on:** May 01, 2009, 12:51:59 AM »

The NRA asked to look at the evidence ,and at the supposed illegal guns and was denied access. The front door where the shooting started "disappeared. The crime scene was bulldozed almost before the fires were out. Pretty obvious to me that the FBI decided that the had to save ATF's butt. They initiated that by starting the fire.

ironglow · « **Reply #131 on:** May 01, 2009, 01:00:27 AM »

I believe nearly all of us can recall how the administration and the media both did their best to "demonize" the Branch Davidians, even before they laid seige to the compound.
Last week the new homelend security director started on a trail to "demonize" veterans, pro-lifers, Christians, patriotic groups and others that are acutely aware about the intention of the Constitution.
Could that be in preparation for some future "Waco action"? After all, they very groups she started denigrating are the ones more likely to point out the encroaching/approaching Fascism.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #132 on:** May 01, 2009, 02:59:07 AM »

That may be the one and only thing one can take to the bank right now, IG

BIGDAVE54 · « **Reply #133 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:28:08 PM »

Well....unlike most of the conspiracy finatics I think David Koresch belonged under the jail. What is the matter with this country? This weirdo was marrying eleven year old girls and having sexual relations with them!!!! Does anybody but me see something wrong about that? This guy was a nutcase....period.If he had molested my daughter the way he did these little girls in Texas I would have taken him out with a roadside bomb long before they came popular in Iraq. I admit the government goofed up in the way they served the warrants. The government is scared of anything that resembles a church. Every nutcase in America knows this so if they are perverts and child molesters the first thing they try to do is wrap themselves in the Bible. I know this for a fact because I live in South Carolina. The part time preachers down here are worse than the Catholic priests when it comes to this kind of thing. The state police here found one preacher that sponsored a young girls volleyball league between the churches. He had hidden cameras in the shower rooms at the church gym and would live feed video of the little jr. high school aged children straight to the web. Perverts all over the world were paying this guy a fee to log on and look at little girls naked in a locker room. I think this is sick and the guy needs to go to prison...however. I think what David Koresch did was worse.

ironglow · « **Reply #134 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:06:14 PM »

Bigdave;
Yes, That is what the feds spread rumors about just as they do when they start to persecute one of these off-beat groups. However the CPS of Texas gave them a clear bill just weeks before the massacre.
You say Koresh actually did molest the kids, please show us proof; or are you going to simply accept government "spin"? ..But then, we know the Clintons, Renos and Rahm Emmanuels of the world would never spin..would they.. Besides, who is Clinton to complain about someone taking advantage of those in their charge? Of course, as gun owners we are well aware that the ATF would never give false testimony..aren't we ?
I hope you are not implying that it is better to burn out the women and kids than to arrest Koresh while he was out jogging. You may be OK in that judgement if you don't consider barbequeing the women & chilkdren to be abuse.
I believe those who said the Waco massacre was a gross miscarriage of justice...no question in any sane mind! Obviously, it would have been much easier and less painful to have left a handful of Texas law officers on "siege duty" for a few more weeks if necessary..just to avoid making dozens of women & children into charcoal..

Oldshooter · « **Reply #135 on:** July 20, 2009, 08:30:36 AM »

I didn't give a rats behind about Koresh but to murder those innocent kids was just that and it was, and is still wrong! The perpetrators of that still should be prosecuted!

AtlLaw · « **Reply #136 on:** July 20, 2009, 09:34:10 AM »

Yup, the Government really protected those kids from harm didn't they...

ironglow · « **Reply #137 on:** July 20, 2009, 09:42:59 AM »

Sure enough Atlaw;
And as the liberals always say: "We did it for the children!" ....Yeah right !

ironglow · « **Reply #138 on:** July 21, 2009, 10:47:36 AM »

Right there TM, but it is not always in Texas nor does it have to be. The liberals do the most dastardly things..then claim "it is for the children".
It is the liberals who constantly shout about liberty and freedom..but when they get the power (as now in Washington) they do their very best to see that government butts into and controls EVERY facet of our lives.
"For the children" actually means "for my career and bank account"...and.."liberty & freedom" actually means "becoming serfs to an overbearing government" !
When is the public going to learn that when the liberals say something, we can safely conclude they mean the exact opposite?.

BIGDAVE54 · « **Reply #139 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:23:56 PM »

Well I don't have to take anyones word for it. I saw videos of him admitting to marrying underage children. He fully admitted it. You can do all the doublespeak and finatic mumbo jumbo talk you want to,but i am convinced that the guy was a scumbag and a pervert. Just like Jim Jones and other scumbag pervert preachers this guy had assembled a huge group of sheeple minded idiots to follow him ,feed him,and give him their money so he didn't have to work for a living like most people.
Now having said that ...do I think the FBI and the ATF did wrong...ABSOLUTELY THEY DID WRONG, I have never been a fan of the FBI. It is a group of business school graduates ,minorities,freaks and geeks,and rich peoples kids that were too dumb to do anything else. If you look closely you will see few veterans...they are mostly people that ran and hid in the basement when all the wars started or used draft deferments. They run a good crime lab,they have a good record keeping system and all the other things that someone learns in business school,but they were founded and developed by a man that wore womens clothes to work under his suit and kept dirtfiles on everybody in the country.Around here locally ...they are known as a bunch of drunks. The ATF at the time was not much better. All and all these people have no power.They sit back and do what they are told to do from a bunch of talking heads in Washington. At the time Feb.28th,1983 those two heads were Bill Clinton and Janet Reno.They had barely a year on the job when they got a call saying two federal agencies had blown it. I pretty well figure Janet Reno knew about the raid before it happened and okayed it. What it boiled down to was false information they had about fully automatic weapons.A farmer reported hearing full auto gunfire coming from the compound.What he heard was a semiauto ar 15 fitted with a Hellfire trigger device that simulated full auto but was legal to own at the time.That didn't matter. Reno had an antigun agenda to promote.
The way I look at it the ATF should have waited until this pervert was in town to arrest him.I absolutely do not know why they took the course of action they took.They were gambleing that a small time show of force would scare these people. A child could see these people were not afraid of a bunch of misguided feds.I have to think that it was just one group of idiots going out to do battle with another group of idiots. We can stand up wave the flag and say yes,but these people were federal agents....That is true,but most people nowadays as then have lost any respect they had for federal agents. Especially nowadays as they have turned a blind eye while 15 million felons walked across the border and in to our country...but not to go off on a tangent... if you don't believe these people were just a bunch of knuckleheads...the only other plausible story is to believe they did it on purpose just so they could murder everyone there. I just don't believe that. I do feel sorry for the women and the kids that died.

ironglow · « **Reply #140 on:** August 14, 2009, 12:33:31 AM »

Dave I wasn't defending the guy that married 14 yr olds..just wasn't sure it was a federal case..should have been handled by local authorities, unless he made a practice of running state-to-state.
Waco (IMO) was a complete usurpation of constitutional rights and I think it was the top politician in Washington, just testing how far the people and the media would allow him to stomp the Constitution into the dirt. He got his answer..most of the media cared less, even mocking the Branch Davidians when their lives were in extreme peril. They even cooperated with Clintonistas..being completely willing to stay a mile from the action..and staying there until evidence of the crime was sanitized and bulldozed under.
I believe that was the beginning of the end for much of objective journalism, which was completed in 2008 with a near complete sellout.

Note: I think that TM was also not defending that guy (Jeffers?), but didn't like the way the women & kids were handled.
....But I'll let him speak to that..

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #141 on:** August 14, 2009, 05:13:33 AM »

One has to ask if he was treating the women and children different than they would have been treated when the Consitution was written ? Then ask if we get to pick and choose which parts can be twisted or not ? if so what good is it ? If he broke a state law so be it but trying to use the Consitution to punish is wrong it is to preserve freedom not dictate custom .

ShadowMover · « **Reply #142 on:** August 19, 2009, 08:36:28 PM »

Quote from: victorcharlie on October 30, 2006, 01:44:12 AM

So.......what's the difference between a patriot and a terriorist?

That's an easy one. If your side wins you are a patriot, and if it loses you're a terrorist or traitor.

In 1600, Sir John Harrington wrote these immortal words:

"Treason doth never prosper; what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

kix · « **Reply #143 on:** August 21, 2009, 05:26:31 PM »

I know this is an old thread but as a Texan I watched the events unfold everyday on the news and it really seems like yesterday.I cannot provide you with videos,personal accounts or anything of the like but what happened,to any sane person's interpretation,was simply MURDER by the biggest gang in town.Hopefully,since,Waco,a lot of LEO's will question the orders of their superiors and think before they don their black suits and assault when there was a much simpler solution. Just my thoughts. Kix

ironglow · « **Reply #144 on:** August 22, 2009, 01:14:38 AM »

Amen, Kix...

HogFan · « **Reply #145 on:** November 04, 2009, 04:29:17 PM »

Kind of hard to believe the thread is still going. When the Branch Dividian Investigation was conducted on Ft. Hood, TX they brought in a Royal Navy Helicopter form England that had the same FLIR imaging system in it, that was used by the FBI when the whole thing went down. The British Navy's finding was the same as that as the engineer for the F.L.I.R. company, but I can almost gurantee that was not in the investigation report.

Dee · « **Reply #146 on:** November 04, 2009, 04:44:19 PM »

No, but it was in the SECOND DOCUMENTARY, and so was the FLIR company expert. It's just that the public at large did not care, and neither did the media.
I had friends in L.E. that were there, and a couple testified on the 2nd Documentary and it was NOT for the FBI, or ATF. The Texas Rangers and the local Sheriff didn't buy the lie either.

ironglow · « **Reply #147 on:** November 06, 2009, 11:55:21 PM »

I recall seeing that second documentary...pretty hard to refute such good detective work. At one point, when we observed what appeared to be flames issuing from the tank to the building, some govt stooge claimed it was just light, reflecting from a shiny surface on the tank...well DUH!

Having been a tanker I can assure you, we always made sure there were no "shiny surfaces' to reflect light from...

Would a hunter sit in a blind and flash a mirror toward the game he's trying to bag?

Line475 · « **Reply #148 on:** November 11, 2009, 01:54:44 AM »

Quote from: kix on August 21, 2009, 05:26:31 PM

I know this is an old thread but as a Texan I watched the events unfold everyday on the news and it really seems like yesterday.I cannot provide you with videos,personal accounts or anything of the like but what happened,to any sane person's interpretation,was simply MURDER by the biggest gang in town.Hopefully,since,Waco,a lot of LEO's will question the orders of their superiors and think before they don their black suits and assault when there was a much simpler solution. Just my thoughts. Kix

Hopefully, LEO's are learning about Oath Keepers, an organization that I am proud to be a member. The Oath Keepers target military and law enforcement, but anyone can join.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/