Author Topic: Traditional archery-should not it be kept that way? (Read 1989 times)

scout4 · « **on:** April 11, 2009, 10:40:41 AM »

nothing

stubshaft · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2009, 11:16:05 AM »

I AM from the old school. I don't mean to be rude or denegrate what you have posted. I have a tendency to save my stock of wood arrows for "important" hunts. I have over 19 traditional bows in my collection. I have taught my nieces and nephews how to shoot and hunt with them. I hunt with traditional bows because it gives me a sense of peace and tranquility I don't get from "string guns". However it comes down to an economic dilemna as far as shooting carbons. In my hunting quiver I carry 6 arrows. Each on of them has been through at least 7 hogs. How many animals do you think a wooden arrow can harvest?

Swampman · « **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2009, 12:59:00 PM »

One I saw how bomb proof carbon arrows were, I was sold. I like wood, but it's really hard to get good shafts.

sidekick · « **Reply #3 on:** April 11, 2009, 01:13:38 PM »

Nothing wrong with wooden arrows I suppose if that is what you want to shoot. For me, I use Gold Tip carbon arrows that look like wood, sort of. Arrow for arrow carbons, or aluminum, will be more consistent than wood. Shoot what makes you happy, that's what it's all about.

Jacko · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2009, 02:46:20 PM »

I have a differant veiw of what traditional archery is which has developed over the 30 plus years I have loved archery , I believe what is called traditional archery today is a misnomer - folks are searching for a link to the romance of the past and have adopted the term Traditional Archery to describe a photoshot in time . I am really passionate about this topic and am trying to talk softy

Those many thousands of years ago when bows and arrows where developed they where cutting edge technology for there time , every advancement in design and ingenuity in the use of developing natural materials and synthetic materials took us down the path to the technology used in todays equipment , the advancements in composite materials used with traditional archery equipment construction today is a continuation of this same cutting edge technology being applied and developed by each generation through the ages .

I am also puzzled by the insistance that in order to be a traditional archer you must shoot wood arrows and feathers off the shelf etc . Fibreglass laminations where first used in mass production after WW2 , Aluminium arrows where in common use in the late 1920's - remember Doug Easton . Aluminium arrows are as synthetic as fibreglass laminations and have at least 20 years on them and are a part of 20th century archery history , why do we accept fibreglass laminations but not alluminium arrows . What type of arrows did Howard Hill use in Africa to take his elephants ?? - look it up many folks are surprised , would any folks challenged Hills place as a Traditional Archery icon because he chose to shoot a sythetic arrow material or swithed too fibreglass laminations as they proved to have advantages over laminated bamboo , he adopted new technology and used it to further archery . Why do we pick and choose whats acceptable traditional archery equipment when ones use predates another ?

I have made and shot my own truely primitive equipment since 1995 , , I make and shoot my own fibreglass laminated bows , I use epoxy resin or PVA glue to make all timber laminated bows and in reinforced self nock / footed arrows . I also have a great time shooting my 2 ILF limb bows , one a deflex reflex limb bow with a action wood and phenolic riser and another a carbon laminated recurve limbed machined alloy riser and the accuracy of a fine set of high forward of centre carbon arrows .

At the North Albert Traditional Archery Rendezvous this weekend , a great mate of mine commented what a pleasure it was for him to see me with my selfbow and wood arrows instead of my techno recurve and how he was more comfortable with who I am when he see's me with my primitive gear - says more about his ideals than mine .

I have grown tired of the way the term Traditional archery is brandished by the self appointed Traditional Archery police . I do not regard the Compound device as a bow though it does shoot arrows it does it through mechanical means , for me a true bow draws it's inspiration from the simple tillered stick and string , look at the Asiatic composites or the Penobscot bows to see the pinnacle of natural material archery technology . Modern materials used to reproduce these ancient designs are simply an extension of this developent .

I struggled for years with the ill at ease feeling and contradictions in what we call traditional archery today that you talk about scout4 . I have finally decided the only answer for me is not too denegrate anyone who shares a passion for archery whatever form it takes . Look out though if they give me a hard time , some folks just gotta learn to mind their own business .

regards Jacko

deernhog · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2009, 04:59:43 PM »

Try finding a quiver of straight river cane arrows with turkey tail feathers glued and tied. Then tipped with barrell hoop broadheads hand ground and hand sharpened. Six arrows like that are about 100 hours work at my estimate. But worth every minute when hunting with them and your handmade bow. I practice with carbons and feathers though until hunting season nears, then I practice with the prized ones.

deernhog · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2009, 05:07:17 PM »

Quote from: deernhog on April 12, 2009, 04:59:43 PM

Try finding a quiver of straight river cane arrows with turkey tail feathers glued and tied. Then tipped with barrell hoop broadheads hand ground and hand sharpened. Six arrows like that are about 100 hours work at my estimate. But worth every minute when hunting with them and your handmade bow. I practice with carbons and feathers though until hunting season nears, then I practice with the prized ones.
Jacko Howard Hill was an Archer when a archer was rare and set the standard. Material evolution was not a factor it seemed until the compound came along then the elitist's arose. There could be a traditional issues over strings, nocks, broadheads and thier attachments and even the clothing worn.

I wasn't meaning to quote but did sorry.

tn_junk · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2009, 02:59:50 AM »

I gave up Compounds and have made my own Bows and Arrows since about 1992.
I only shoot wood or rivercane arrows, feather fletched. I have friends that shoot
carbon, and even aluminum, with their "traditional" Bows. They have neither the
time nor money to make/buy "real" traditional arrows. To me, it is not the material
you shoot but the intent in your heart. They enjoy the time in the woods, the fact
that, even with carbon or aluminum arrows, you have to get a lot closer to the game
than with the modern rocket launchers.
This year I may even buy some "modern arrows", as I am down to two good arrows,
and just can't find the time to make more. I don't think that will make me less of a
traditional archer.

alan

theoldarcher · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2009, 05:59:06 AM »

Alan: agree with the heart issue. I am lousy with words, so I'm not sure how this will turn out. I have used 'traditional' bows and arrows exclusively--that reads no compounds in my life--since 1950 or so. The heart issue has always been a huge factor in the men, women, and children I have met and either shot bows with or hunted with since then. I am hard-pressed to explain that, other than to say it was never about killing the biggest, the highest-scoring, or the most animals; it was never about speed but more about down-range 'thump!' It was more about camp fires, good companionship, ethical shot placement, than about a name in a record book. It was about the bow becoming a personality to the hunter/shooter rather than a piece of technology that had a very short life span before becoming obsolete. Some of my bows are over 40 years old and still shoot as well today as when new. I'm not knocking the hi-teck attitude--to each his own. As for me, I love the study of animal behavior and biology, ecology, topography of where I hunt and climatology of those areas, and I love woodsmanship and skills. Those bring me more pleasure and are more fulfilling than the number of animals hanging on my walls. I like sharing my campfire with like-minded brother of the bent stick.

Keep the wind in your face and your broadheads sharp.

Arch

tn_junk · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2009, 09:54:50 AM »

oldarcher-
Couldn't agree more. I am not ashamed to admit that I have never killed a deer with my
traditional gear. Sat many, many, many wonderful hours in the woods though. Have only taken one shot, in which I shot over the back of a doe at about 15 yards. Have watched hundreds of deer at "compound" range, without the first regret that I couldn't reach them.

alan

p.s. Have killed a couple of squirrels with traditional archery gear. None further than 5 yards away, and probably no more than 60 or 70 misses before I got the first one. Also killed a beaver, at about 6 paces.

deernhog · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2009, 03:06:21 PM »

My old daddy would always tell people after an unsuccessfull hunt that he was a hell of a deerhunter, but the deerkiller part he was lacking in somewhat. Hunted 23 years and killed his first deer two days before his 82nd birthday with a 30-30. Turned 90 this year and swears that he will get one with his bow before he quits so I will take him.

deernhog · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2009, 03:07:02 PM »

Quote from: deernhog on April 13, 2009, 03:06:21 PM

My old daddy would always tell people after an unsuccessfull hunt that he was a hell of a deerhunter, but the deerkiller part he was lacking in somewhat. Hunted 23 years and killed his first deer two days before his 82nd birthday with a 30-30. Turned 90 this year and swears that he will get one with his bow before he quits so I will take him.

pab1 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2009, 05:45:38 PM »

I agree that there is something special about wood arrows. I have shot wood and aluminum for many years and just picked up my first set of carbons. The best thing about the carbons was that I was easily able to fine tune them to my bow. Within minutes I had an 800 grain arrow (I like them heavy) with 20% FOC that shoots like a dart out of my 68# Kodiak Hunter thats as old as I am. They paper tuned well and shoot exactly where I'm looking. In my experience, making wood arrows can be hit or miss when matching them to a bow. I have made some batches of woods that shot well with little effort and others that about drive me nuts. I'll keep making woods for my longbows and recurves, but like others have said, I'll save them for special hunts. I do plan to try making some self bows soon. I don't think they will see anything but woods.

deernhog · « **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2009, 02:09:51 AM »

Traditional archery is relevant to how traditional the hunter wants to be. When I started shooting "traditional archery" if you had a recurve or long bow you were in. Then you had some that went as far as wood arrows but only a few because they were a pain to fletch and tune. Traditional could even be considered primitive archery if you regress that far back to a the true traditional archery. Either way I luv the things.

theoldarcher · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2009, 03:13:27 AM »

I have a self-bow of Osage coming from a bowyer who is a full-time artist and gallery owner in New Mexico. So last evening while it was raining here in southern MI, I went upstairs to my room to try to decide if I want to sell some of the bows on my wall. I strung two long bows: an Ancient Spirits and a ThunderStick by Jim Reynolds. Then I strung two flat bows: a '97 P.B.S. commerative bow, and a Dynasty Custom. I drew them all, dusted the little dust that was on them, and admired the wood combinations: blanket maple dyed dark with cocobola riser; tiger maple on limbs and riser of the Spirits bow; black walnut and persimmon; and zebra wood and stained red elm on the Dynasty. Then I just sat in my recliner looking at that silly wall full of bows, and told myself, "Not yet." Like many of you, I love wood. What I choose to shoot off these bows doesn't in any way reflect any lesser love of using these kinds of bows for hunting and plinking. But, as I stated on another thread here, I REALLY love the smell of a broken cedar arrow over a ruined carbon or a broken aluminum. I guess the love affair that started many, many years ago is a bad today as it was then! I'm hopeless...

Arch

ncsurveyor · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2009, 04:11:55 AM »

I used to shoot cedar arrows with zwickey broadheads.

Due to 2 torn rotator cuffs (yes, I tore both shoulders), I choose to use carbon arrows (with zwickey broadheads) that my wife bought me as a birthday present, because I get a few more FPS to compensate for my reduced draw. Besides, never look gift arrows in the mouth.

I really would like to shoot cedar arrows again, reliably with adequate killing force, but I just don't know if the shoulders are up to that challenge. After shooting the carbon arrows for a while, though, I am not sure I would go back if I got repaired all of the sudden.

I suppose by some standards, since I went techno, I shouldn't be considered a traditional archer? It would be a shame if someone actually felt that way.

There are a lot of things I do that are based on my perception of tradition, hoping that by keeping those traditions going, that someday they may rekindle other traditions of days gone by. Certainly helps detract from the economy and such.

But when it comes to the two extremes of "stick to your guns" versus "pick your battles", is a man's choice of arrows as opposed to his choice of bows, a valid criteria for excluding or including him in a category.

Traditional archery I suppose should include nothing but ironwood self-bows, animal hide glue, and knapped flint arrowheads, with turkey feather fletching.

Where's Tred Barta?

theoldarcher · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:32:58 AM »

ncsurveyor: never hear an argument from me. You can still bow hunt: that's the main thing! I have accumulated stacks of carbon and aluminum arrows over the years. I have killed animals with all of them, and the animal didn't seem to differentiate between being shot by wood, carbon, or aluminum.

Best of luck, and may you shoot long into the future!!

Arch

scout4 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2009, 03:00:19 PM »

Other than my recurve bow, I do shoot my own handmade longbows that I've made myself. These special longbows I only shoot with wood arrows, and that is because anything other than wood is out of place for these longbows. I have from one of these bows shot some cedar arrows that I had custom made for me, fly better and with great accuracy than carbon arrows from my recurve. Far as I'm concerned that kind of performance from a bow an arrow that has been hand crafted out of natural wood is something not easy to place a price tag on. scout4<><

squirrellluck · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2009, 03:59:35 PM »

I dont care what anyone shoots through their bow. Personal preference is just that. Its hunting thats the important thing. I have shot aluminum arrows with my bows but to me the wood arrows are my prefered arrow. They just seem quieter than aluminum. May just be my imagination but thats ok too.

Jacko · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2009, 10:39:40 PM »

Summed up in a few words - intent in the heart , why did I type that long winded dribble

regards Jacko

crash87 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 18, 2009, 03:39:32 AM »

Wow, and all these years I thought of myself as a traditional Archer. Guess I better re-evaluate my credentials. I've even been to Traditional shoots with my, now, Non-traditional long bows, recurves and "gasp" non-wooden arrows. (High tech machine made) By the wat I just saw an ad for wood arrows that were "ELECTRONICALLY" spined, is there no justice? Seriously, I guess one would have to set a criteria for "what is traditional". "THAT AINT GONNA HAPPEN! not here or anywhere for that matter. Read the posts again if you do not believe. I read a article in Trad' Bowhunter a while back where this same thing about what traditional should be, to set up a season in a mountain state for trad' only. Talk about taking hunting away from the masses. There are extremes to everything, just look at the muzzleloaders, want to start a fight , Have a flintlock tell an inline he AINT got no Muzzleloader but a modern high powered rifle!!
I actually do not really like the word Traditional, after all when I started shooting a bow I was just an archer. Then the compounds came into being and we were still all archers, then high tech got involved and we became "different". (Which I don't mind, it suppose to set us apart) Now I don't know what to call myself. Traditional, Modern Traditional, Retro-Traditional...AAAARRRGGHH! Sorry guys I'm getting a headache, I think I'm going to over to the medium bores and weigh in on what's better a 30-06 or a 270. CRASH87

Casull · « **Reply #21 on:** April 18, 2009, 01:17:49 PM »

Quote

I choose to use carbon arrows (with zwickey broadheads) that my wife bought me as a birthday present, because I get a few more FPS to compensate for my reduced draw.

Honest question here. Why would the carbon be any faster than the wood? Unless they are just lighter, in which case you would be giving up penetration for speed.

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** April 18, 2009, 02:43:03 PM »

They are straighter & they stay straight. That's why they are faster.

Casull · « **Reply #23 on:** April 18, 2009, 02:47:59 PM »

Quote

They are straighter & they stay straight. That's why they are faster.

That is nonsense. They may be straighter, but the amount of difference would not even register on a chronograph.

Swampman · « **Reply #24 on:** April 18, 2009, 03:17:29 PM »

Of course it will.

squirrellluck · « **Reply #25 on:** April 18, 2009, 05:49:03 PM »

They are smaller in diameter plus I do believe they are lighter. Example, the weight of my broadheads are 175 total weight of my arrow is 720 What is the total weight of a like spined carbon. Mine are spined for 55 lb bow.

deernhog · « **Reply #26 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:44:27 PM »

Significant difference in carbon and wood speed and you don't have to have the chrony to see it in my bows. I do have a problem with penetration of the carbons I use as opposed to aluminum or wood.

Casull · « **Reply #27 on:** April 21, 2009, 07:54:21 AM »

Quote

Significant difference in carbon and wood speed and you don't have to have the chrony to see it in my bows. I do have a problem with penetration of the carbons I use as opposed to aluminum or wood.

Well, at least that makes sense. Yes, if lighter, they will shoot faster, but penetration will suffer.