Author Topic: 1911 recoil springs  (Read 3380 times)

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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911 recoil springs
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2008, 02:23:03 PM »
With my slightly modified norinco I can give it to anyone, even with no pistol experience and they shoot 1 cloverleaf per mag with it. My son and his girlfriend both did it on seperate targets. I would think seeing this on paper at 20/25 yds would make me think my changes are working in the right direction. They both have no pistol experience at all.

Extremely good ju ju, and all the planets are aligned. Otherwise Les Baer would like to know your secrets.  ;)
Savage

I'm no gunsmith nor a 1911 guru, nor claim to be mikey here knows me better than that.

I fitted the new barrel and the national match barrel bushing myself.  I figured a way to actually have it hold the barrel firm when its in full battery yet its able to pivot down to load a round with out any barrel spring.  Its so easy to understand how to do it.  I did it and it works awesome. My old barrel bushing had more play in it to the slide fit than the barrel to the bushing fit had.

Barrel & bushing/slide fit 101

First;  I had a very loose barrel bushing in the slide so i fitted the national match barrel bushing to the slide first.  Its only snug and the bushing wrench is needed to turn it the last 1/4 turn into place.  It doesn't take too much pressure with the wrench to turn the barrel bushing into place.

Second;  I fitted the bushing to the slide next.  Looking at the barrel bushing from the side, think about it.(cut away view)  The rearward upper part of the barrel bushing bore should only contact the barrel  firm when its in full battery.  So about 1/2 to 2/3 from the front of the barrel bushing can be relieved for the pivoting into the load position.  Yet it also has to be fitted on the upper rear part of the barrel bushing so it goes into full battery with no barrel spring when its in the slide lugs.

At the sametime the lower section of the national match barrel bushing has to be fitted too.  In the opposite direction.  The rearward lower section has to be relieved so the barrel can hinge to load a round again with no barrel spring.  While the front section holds the barrel in full battery with no barrel spring at the lug section.

You have to go slow to fit the barrel bushing properly.  When you first fit the new barrel bushing to the slide the centerline of the bore can be off too.  Meaning the new barrel can sit on an angle too before fitting just a tad.  You need to look closely and  think about that during the fitting process too on where to remove more metal out of the ID bore of the barrel bushing..

The upper rearward section and the lower front section hold the barrel snug when its in full battery.  Think about how the barrel moves.  It works my norinco shoots cloverleafs ju ju? Trust me it works i did it myself.

Its not rocket science to figure it out.  I'm just a machine builder by trade.  I understand how parts work together and move all the time.

Offline 44 Man

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Re: 1911 recoil springs
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2008, 12:42:14 AM »
The stronger spring help hold the gun into 'lockup' tighter so it 'may' shoot a little better.  But you have to remember that with a heavier spring, you are slamming the slide forward harder after each shot.  That has a tendency to loosen things up after a while.  It's all a compromise.  I have heard from the best 1911 gunsmith I have ever dealt with (Tuner), that it is best to use the 'lightest' spring you can that will function reliabily.  Of course he is more interested in function and dependability than he is in accuracy.  He claims that any 1911 is accurate enough for it's intended purpose, but if it fails to function when you need it, you are up the proverbial creek.  44 Man
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911 recoil springs
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2008, 05:32:07 AM »
I was looking for controllability and some improved accuracy.  I just wanted to keep the muzzle down(recoil). I want it still to be reliable and cycle faster and smoother too. A now have a second round loaded in mili seconds. Matching this to the reduced muzzle jump my target "RE" acquisition is very fast after firing the first shot.  Speed is the key  to survival right?  The extra weight up front with the full length guide rod and the 18# recoil spring gave me both of the things i was looking for.  Plus it took out the kink noise with the stronger recoil spring too.

My muzzle jump on my norinco is straight up and about 1 1/2" to 2" if that much.  I really can't ask for it to be much better than that.  Once i have it the best it can be i won't shoot it much.  Its my CCW gun too.

I'm going to try the 20# & the 22# recoil springs next to see if it changes anything for the better.

I did hammer a new 70's model colt in nickel with hot loads by not changing out the recoil spring to a stronger one.  I had no one to tell me what to do back then there was no internet and Mikey/S.S. to talk with i was SOL.  It was a really purdy nickel job though.

Offline 44 Man

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Re: 1911 recoil springs
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2008, 07:38:39 AM »
Most of us, in an attempt to get a better trigger pull, have lightened the hammer spring some.  BUT if you really want a reduction in recoil that you can take to the bank, keep the hammer spring at full power and put in one of the old style (as in John Browning's original design) firing pin stops.  Those had very little bevel at the bottom, just enough to break the corner.  That combined with a full power hammer spring will reduce recoil an amazing amount.  The army board added the big bevel to make the gun easier to 'rack' and changed the whole cocking geometry.  John's solution was to tell you to cock the hammer first if the gun was hard to rack.  The part is available from Brownells as a 'gunsmith fit' firing pin stop.  Fit it to the slide, then just 'break' the leading edge that contacts the hammer.  44 Man
You are never too old to have a happy childhood!

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911 recoil springs
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2008, 09:28:00 AM »
I haven't touched the hammer spring at all.  I think the stronger recoil spring doesn't allow the slide to over travel to its full extent and actually making the recoil worsen.  I think it has just enough movement to allow extraction and load the next round with lightening speed.  I'm kind of happy right now but i would like to see what the 20# & 22# spring will do.  I'd like to know how nuch closer to the edge of not functioning am i, if its very close  the 18# spring may go back in and thats that.

Offline 44 Man

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Re: 1911 recoil springs
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2008, 03:52:04 PM »
Sometimes what we percieve as recoil is actually the 'bounce' as all of the weight of the slide and barrel go forward and slam back into battery.  44 Man
You are never too old to have a happy childhood!

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: 1911 recoil springs
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2008, 01:38:38 AM »
44man is right on. The firing pin stop is made by EGW. It is totally square on the bottom edge. You have to put the bevel on yourself. On another web site they have over 20 pages of discussion on this one part.

Trust the man. Leave the standard mainspring in place and install the square bottom (bevel to suit) firing pin stop. This will do so much to reduce recoil you will  be amazed.
SharonAnne
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Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

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Offline jimster

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Re: 1911 recoil springs
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2009, 04:58:39 AM »
This thread is getting old, but, I FINALLY decided to fit an EGW fps to one of my pistols.  What took me so long. It IS amazing.  I spent last Friday night at the work bench fitting the EGW fps, and went and put a 100 rds through it.  It feels very different when shooting, the brass does not fly out so far, and another little problem also went away, I was noticing the spent primers on a lot of fired brass (in this 1911) was elongated, this problem also went away, spent primers look normal now on all the brass I fired.  I guess this is why I picked this particular 1911 to fit the EGW fps too.  Must be the slightly increased dwell time or something that gave my firing pin enough time to get out of the way.  I will do this to all the 1911's. 
BTW...all I did was break the edge and smooth it up with almost no radius at all.  SharonAnne was right, I was amazed at the difference in how it felt shooting.

Jim



Offline sweet45

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Re: 1911 recoil springs
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2009, 11:15:29 AM »
EGW flat bottom FPS, 14lb recoil spring, SWEEEET!