Author Topic: colt delta elite 10mm change to 40sw (Read 2147 times)

ratpatrol · « **on:** March 25, 2009, 07:06:48 AM »

I just aquired a new colt de 10mm. I reload and have a lot of cast 180gr bullets, checked on brass and everybody is sold out, 40sw is used by everyone and once fired cheep. My question is how mush for a 40sw barrel and bushing, can I use the 10mm clips, and recoil spring weight needed?|
This is my first 1911 and I don't wount to beat it up on target shooting and me with recoil.I can then change it back to 10mm for carrie and hunting.

tomray · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:10:22 PM »

Quote from: ratpatrol on March 25, 2009, 07:06:48 AM

I just aquired a new colt de 10mm. I reload and have a lot of cast 180gr bullets, checked on brass and everybody is sold out, 40sw is used by everyone and once fired cheep. My question is how mush for a 40sw barrel and bushing, can I use the 10mm clips, and recoil spring weight needed?|
This is my first 1911 and I don't wount to beat it up on target shooting and me with recoil.I can then change it back to 10mm for carrie and hunting.

If you reload, just load it down to a 10MM starting load...........Mid range 10MM loads are not that tough to use in target work.

Tom
NRA LIFE

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:00:28 PM »

Between Starline or Midway one or both usually have brass

williamlayton · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2009, 07:20:51 PM »

Springs may need to be lightened for softer loads.
Blessings

Mikey · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:08:21 AM »

ratpatrol: I would agree with the other guys here and just load down your 10mm brass. If you shoot 40 S&Ws in a 10mm chamber you can ring your chamber with lead and powder buildup that might prevent a full length 10mm from chambering. A new 40 S&W barrel for your Delta Elite would probably run near $200 for a quality barrel (Bar-Sto or someone else). You would be able to use the same magazines but would probably have to drop some recoil spring weight - Wolfe or Wolffe Springs in Ardsmore, PA sells different weight springs for different applications in the 1911s - I would say a replacement spring for a factory original recoil spring for a 1911 in 40S&W would suffice for reduced power 10mm or 40 S&W loads.

I would also suggest abandoning the 40S&W idea and just load down your 10mms. The 180 gn cast slug is a great weight slug for the 10mm bore and you can blast it out or let it ride easy. You don't need a master blaster 10mm load with a 180 gn slug for personal defense - for hunting though and for anything from Whitetail to Black Bear or Hog a heavy 10mm load is preferable. HTH.

rbwillnj · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:37:38 AM »

Brownells has Kart Easy Fit S&W barrels complete with a prefitted bushing for about $225. You will still have to do some fitting, and if your not familiar with doing that work, you should take it to a gunsmith. You may need a lighter recoil spring but maybe not. You may need 40 S&W mags, but maybe not. I've had pretty good luck using 38 Super Mags for 9mm.

However, given the expense, I'd recommend loading down the 10 mm cases as suggested. They will probably last a very long time.

ratpatrol · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2009, 07:27:06 AM »

Thanks for the come back. I just checked on 10mm brass, everybody is out of stock. thats why I was thinking of the more plentifull 40sw. If I could get a barrel for a 100 bucks I do it. gunsmith fitting is no problem for me. What do you guys do for recoil springs, get a wolff variable power recoil spring pack, man they go from 9lb to 28lb, where to start with a 180gr at 900fps, Will all springs listed for 1911 work in a colt de ? I also see Ed Brown list a drop-in barrel for 40sw, anybody tried them ?

Savage · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:15:37 AM »

As hard to come by as 10mm brass can be, I'd spend the money for the barrel and bushing! I pick up .40 S&W brass on most every range trip. The Wolff "Calibration" spring kit is the way to go for recoil springs. You're sure to find the proper one in the kit.
Savage

rbwillnj · « **Reply #8 on:** March 27, 2009, 09:49:28 AM »

One thing I forgot to mention. The Kart Barrels in Brownells are ramped barrels. They come in two flavors, Wilson/Nowlin, and Clark/Para. I'm not familiar enough with your gun to know if your 10mm barrel is ramped or not, or which ramp it uses. If it's not ramped, you would have to have the frame cut for one of the ramped barrels, and I don't think you would be able to use your 10mm barrel in the gun after the frame was cut, but I don't know that for sure.

Kart does offer a standard non-ramped Gunsmith fit barrel as well. I bit more fitting would be required.

halfslow · « **Reply #9 on:** March 27, 2009, 01:30:59 PM »

You can get a nice 40 S&W barrel from Numrich, also named e-gun parts.
The link is:
http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=1050560A&chrSuperSKU=1050560&MC=
The current cost is $83.95.
I bought one recently and put it in my DE. It did require a little fitting.
Am waiting for the spring kit before shooting it.
So far, It feeds fine from the 10 mm mag manually.
I found I could buy the 40 weak & short ammo all over the place, but 10 mm is much harder to get.
I do reload, so I hate it when I lose the fired cases.

halfslow · « **Reply #10 on:** March 27, 2009, 01:33:31 PM »

Forgot to mention.
This is not a ramped barrel.
It looks almost exactly like the regular 10 mm barrel in all respects.

ratpatrol · « **Reply #11 on:** March 28, 2009, 06:00:39 PM »

halfslow, Thats greate news,

Keep me posted also what spring weight you settled on. Big 10-4 on the brass, I hate being on my knees, looking for quarters in the grass.

helotaxi · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2009, 03:26:56 AM »

Quote from: Mikey on March 26, 2009, 01:08:21 AM

ratpatrol: I would agree with the other guys here and just load down your 10mm brass. If you shoot 40 S&Ws in a 10mm chamber you can ring your chamber with lead and powder buildup that might prevent a full length 10mm from chambering.

The .40 round will not properly headspace in the 10mm chamber. Like pretty much all rimless autopistol cartridges, both headspace on the case mouth. If the case is way short (.40 compared to 10mm) the firing pin could likely just shove the round forward in the chamber. Misfires and FTE would be the best you could hope for.

Savage · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2009, 08:24:55 AM »

Not a good idea, firing .40 ammo in a 10mm chamber. If the extractor is properly tensioned, it will hold the .40 rd against the bolt face well enough to feed and fire. Not suggesting anyone fire anything in a barrel not specifically chambered for the cartridge. But-------- if you look at chamber and case specs of say, a .45acp. it's easy to see where a max dept chamber and a min length case, (both in spec) could create .020 excessive head space and still work just fine. I have a .40 barrel for my EAA 10mm that allows me to use the more available .40 brass for shooting the reduced loads. If I lose a little of the .40 brass, it's no big deal. Don't like losing the 10mm stuff!!!
Savage
Savage

halfslow · « **Reply #14 on:** April 23, 2009, 04:01:19 PM »

I finally made it to the range today.
I put a 18.5# wolff recoil spring in the DE. Got the recomendation off the wolff site.
I am using the $83.95 .40S&W barrel I got from e-gunparts.
Only had time to shoot one box of 50 UMC 180gr fmc through the DE.
I used the two 10 mm auto mags which came with the DE.
It worked flawlessly.
Not one failure to feed, fire or extract.
Careful examination of the cases gives this:
The chamber is not oversize, but not glass smooth either. There is a little abrasion on the brass where it contacts the chamber wall. But there is almost no noticable bulge either. All in all, not a bad barrel for the price.
I also took the oportunity to compare it to a new 1911A1 38 super and a commander in 45 acp, both stock Colts.
I am not the shakiest gun in the west, but make no claim to be a marksman.
All shooting was done offhand at 7 yards using factory fmj at 7 yards under good conditions.
After warming up a bit and getting used to the triggers, I fired a group of five with each onto one target just to see how they compared.
The 38 super went into a 1.17" group, and was very pleasant to shoot.
The 45 commander went into 1.38", and had the most felt recoil.
I then fired two groups of five with the 40 S&W. They measured 2.2 and 2.75 inches.
I personally am pleased so far.
I think a little time paying some attention to the accuracy affecting points like the barrel bushing will make this conversion more accurate.

Halfslow

ratpatrol · « **Reply #15 on:** April 27, 2009, 05:28:39 PM »

I got my 40s&w barrel today from Numrich, looks real good, nice mirror finsh in bore. The top tang on barrel was a couple thousands big .375 filed to .370 to fit top slide also slide would not lock up, filed end ,very little to get to close. barrel to frount bushing is .002 tighter than old barrel. Does this sound OK? the 10mm barrel was a lot looser fit.
I have another problem,I went shooting yesterday with the colt de and a couple of shots from a full clip the slide would lock back, the take down pin would fly up and hold action open. Is this do to a weak recoil spring? I was shooting reloads, 180gr lead , 8 grains HS 6. That's a middle load for 10 mm.

Mikey · « **Reply #16 on:** April 28, 2009, 01:49:13 AM »

Is this do to a weak recoil spring? - Could be. Also, you mentioned that the barrel was a tight fit and that you had to remove some material to get it to lock up properly. You may wish to make certain you have a 'good' fit, or a 'easy' fit, which is where you have a bit more tolerance so that all parts mesh smoothly rather than being so tight, which will affect the functioning of the pistol.

Also, with a new barrel you may experience the type of 'tight fit' you have with a new pistol and as a result you may need a break in period.

I would first make certain all your tolerances are within specification and make certain you have a proper weight recoil spring.

If all this doesn't get it to work properly let's put in a call for help to SharonAnne for advice.............

halfslow · « **Reply #17 on:** April 28, 2009, 09:37:10 AM »

I was kinda surprised to see that Wolff recommended an 18.5# spring for the .40S&W where the .45ACP comes with a 16#.
What is the spring you are using and are these reloads .40S&W or 10mm auto?

ratpatrol · « **Reply #18 on:** April 29, 2009, 06:32:28 PM »

I was using the stock double springs from colt for de 10mm. The gun diffently has a problem, The gun is design to hold action open on a empty clip, mine was locking open after a couple shot from a 7 round loaded clip . I am going to take the grips off and see how it works.
I have not shot the 40 S&W new barrel yet, A spring callabration pack is ordered from Midway.
Doe's anybody have the barrel tolerance fit spec.?

Mikey · « **Reply #19 on:** April 30, 2009, 01:30:09 AM »

If you have not had the slide lock back with rounds in the mag when shooting the 10, you should not have that problem with the 40 S&W. However, it could be that one of the bullets from the 40s might be kicking the slide lock up enough to lock back the slide. The magazine floor plate does this when the mag is empty but if you are using the 10mm mags it is possible that one of the shorter rounds (40s) could be activating the slide lock prematurely.

With a 40 S&W in a 1911 I think I would try a 18 lb recoil spring. The 45 usually comes with a 16-18 lb spring but factory springs are so mass produced that one must wonder if they spring tension is consistent. Wolff Springs makes springs, and that's all they make. I would trust their spring weight consistency more than a factory spring.

Barrel tolerance fit specs??? I would say that if it fits well enough to allow manual chambering and extraction (lock back the slide, insert a loaded mag, release slide to chamber a round, manually eject) with about the same degree of smoothness as the factory 10mm bbl then you have a adeqaute fit. However, this might make the real expert gun builders, like SharonAnne, nutz, and I hope she comes back to straighten me out or better clarify your questions.

It could also be that the pistol now needs some more 'break-in' to get the barrel to seat properly in the slide. But I do believe the magazine locking back the slide while it is still loaded may be more a result of the shorter oal of the 40 in a 10mm mag. jmtcw.

halfslow · « **Reply #20 on:** April 30, 2009, 06:24:43 AM »

Make sure there is not a burr or sharp corner on the top of the slide stop/takedown part where it catches the cutout in the slide. I looked closely at mine and noticed that the DE was kinda sharp compared to a 38 super and a 45. Probably beaten that way by the violence of the recoil.
There are a lot of forces acting on the gun in recoil, and the lock is being pushed up and down by the vibration of the recoil cycle.
I am assuming that your DE is all original, and has not been modified.

ratpatrol · « **Reply #21 on:** May 06, 2009, 11:45:01 AM »

I got the wolff recoil calibration spring pack today from Midway no. 131784 for 1911 extra power. It has 16,18.5,20,22,&24 lb springs. I tried the 18.5 with 40 S&W,175 gr Rn 6.5gr of HS6 , works like a champ, no problem with my barrel fitting eather. This was a very simple cartridge conversion.

halfslow · « **Reply #22 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:24:56 PM »

That is great news.
I guess the original spring was slowing the slide too much.
Anyway, the good news is you got it working.
I bought one of the Lee TL-401-175 molds. Wanted to try the tumble lube bullets, soon as I empty enough cases to make it worth while to load up a batch.
Only trouble so far is the cases kick out all over the place. I think I need a net or something.