Author Topic: Yet another 4x scope question  (Read 1276 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Skopia

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Male
Yet another 4x scope question
« on: March 29, 2009, 02:46:52 PM »
Here's the list that I have come up with for a 4x scope to be mounted on a T/C Omega.

Sightron SII 4x32
Weaver K Series 4x38
Nikon Buckmaster 4x40

Assuming price is not an issue, which scope would you recommend as far as best glass and reliable and dependability is concerned? Also, would a 32 objective gather as much light as say a 40 objective if it were to have better glass?
I am not a scope expert, in fact, I just started using a scope two years ago. I mounted a 2-7x32 Browning scope on another Omega and that scope has served me very well. I have been an open sight hunter for most of my life but age has crept up on me and I have been very impressed with the accuracy that I have achieved useing a scope on my other Omega. In fact, I have harvested 5 deer in two years, all one shot kills with the Browning scope. I still get amazed when that bullet hits exactly where those cross heirs are placed. Thanks for any information.

Offline Cement Man

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2009, 04:28:18 PM »
Here's what I think I know:
"Light gathering" is influenced by two things:  Exit pupil  (the objective lense size in MM divided by magnification) and lense quality and coatings.   My understanding is that the human eye can only take in about the equivalent of an "8" exit pupil, which qualifies all of the scopes you mention. So theoretically, the 32mm will give you all the brightness you can use.  As eyes age, they lose the ability to take in light, so someone my age might benefit maximally from a "7" or less.  Lenses and coatings can be very expensive, and often are the biggest driver in cost of a scope.   I have all three of the scopes that you mention.  I cannot honestly tell you which is the brightest as I find them all satisfactory, and I have never done a real side by side comparison in dim light.
The scope I have used the most is the 4X40 Buckmaster and probably slew a couple dozen deer with it on my .308 rifle. I replaced it with a Bushnell 4200 for the Rainguard feature, not for any dissatisfaction with the Buckmaster. I also have a 4X40 Monarch that I mounted on my Savage muzzleloader.  I never compared the Monarch to the Buckmaster since I have always found the Buckmaster to be perfectly adequate at all legal shooting times.  The first morning I pulled that Monarch up at legal shooting time it was still pretty dark and I was surprised at how bright it was.  But I never looked at the side by side in the dim light. I'm gonna guess that when I do, the difference in lenses and coatings will show up and the MOnarch will be brighter.  The exit pupil is the same on both = "10".
As I said, I have always been perfectly satisfied with the Buckmaster 4 X 40.  I do have another thing I like about it.  Last fall when I put it on my 20 gauge NEF Ultra, I had to zero it in with those expensive (like $13-$14 or so per box for 5 slugs)slugs.  I shot a group and adjusted the windage and elevation to dial it in.  The POI move exactly to where I had dialed - dead nuts. I was impressed.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of these scopes.  If I had to pick one based on your foremost needs, I have the most experience with the Buckmaster.  Most people would agree that they have really good optics for the price.
If you live anywhere near me (NW Illinois) I'll let you look at all three. Or I'll get up early enough and see what I think in a side by side comparison.  My opinion will be worth what it costs. :D

Just one other thought - every once in a while Natchez fas a sale on Nikon factory refurbs.  I believe I have seen the refurbed 4X40 Buckmaster for about $100.  I would think that it would be good as new - heckuva savings.
CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline Skopia

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 12:23:44 AM »
Thank you Cement Man.
 I knew I was going to get an honest, detailed answer from you. I'm way out here in Taxachusetts, (Ma.). It's funny how small this world gets. I have never been out west before. Last year I had to travel to Wisconsin for work purposes and I met a gentlmen from Illinois. We have kept in touch on a regular basis and this year I am going to head out that way to do a little bow hunting with him. Off the top of my head I am not sure what town he lives in, but I know that he says he lives 2 1/2 hours south of Chicago.

Offline Cement Man

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 03:13:13 AM »
I will be glad to check the three side by side.  In the meantime on a whim I looked at Natchez - check this out but don't wait.

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=nk6400&src=ba699

I am going to buy one myself.  These are not refurbs.  Usually means that they are going to drop this model with that kind of price reduction.

One other piece of evidence I would offer.  You have a Browning 2X7X32.  I believe that is made by Bushnell and equates to the 3200 line of scopes, which I believe is very good.  If you are satisfied with the brightness of that Browning, I am confident that you will find any of these fixed powers to be as bright or even brighter.  I have a Bush 3200 2X7X32 bought on sale for the rain jacket offer.  Nice scope.

PS I have never seen a new Buckmaster 4X40 any where near this price.  If you bought it, I believe you would be very pleased.  If not, I believe you could sell it at a profit.
CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline Arier Blut

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 304
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 06:20:18 AM »
Scopia, unless you can find a better deal than that out of the 3. I would go with the the linked bm. I know you stated price no issue. But I have that model and the SII 4x as well. I can tell no difference in clarity or transmission myself. The bm does have a little larger field of view that helps me get on target quicker. For this reason I have the bm on a woods rifle and the SII on a field rifle. Sorry no Weaver. I have taken them out on the covered back porch at night under a full moon. To be honest I could not distinguish a difference while viewing deer at 400 yards and less for about 20 minutes. I could have taken them with either if it were legal. So on a nasty rainy evening either will extend your hunt until the legal shooting time. BTW I just ordered 2 more BM. I paid $160 for the first about 5 years ago.

Offline Cement Man

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2009, 06:33:16 AM »
I ordered another one too.  Now.... will my wife see it on the credit card bill?  If so, which grandson will I tell her it's a Christmas present for?  She seems OK with anything I get the grandkids for Christmas.  :D
CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline Skopia

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 09:56:40 AM »
Thanks Men,
 The Buck Masters has been ordered. Let me ask now, how is the customer service and the warranty with Nikon? I know that sounds a little bit backwards, but I have come to realize that our fraternity usually does not stir us wrong and I did not want to miss that deal. Thanks again.

Offline Cement Man

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2009, 10:05:43 AM »
I have no experience with their warranty - which is a good thing.  This is from their website:

"At Nikon, we believe the best warranty is one you’ll never have to use. For this reason, we crafted the Nikon Lifetime Full Warranty, which provides confidence on those rare occasions when something goes wrong. If any Nikon riflescope is found to have defects in workmanship or materials, we will, at our option, repair or replace it at no charge, even if you are not the original owner. No time limit applies and no
warranty card is required. "

Sounds pretty fair to me. 

I'll be anxious to hear how you like that scope.
CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline boaman88

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2009, 08:25:21 AM »
Friend of mine had a 15 year old Nikon go bad. Nikon sent him a newer model free of charge. If they determine it not worth fixing they will usually replace it with a new scope close to the same level.

Offline Cement Man

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2009, 06:28:36 PM »
Got my new 4X BM yesterday.  I knew it had been somewhat upgraded since I bought my last one.  Main difference is the fast focus eyepiece.  Looks great to me.  I still can't get over the price.  Skopia - did you get yours, and what do you think?
CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline Skopia

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2009, 12:55:51 AM »
Should be here Monday. Was supposed to be here this past Friday according to the tracking system at Naztchez. Looking forward to it. Cementman, you sounded pleasantly surprised with the upgrade on the scope. Now I have to find the time to do some shooting.

Offline Ahab

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2009, 02:18:58 PM »
Hey, Thank you all, ordered a few minutes ago. ;D
NRA Endowment
Arizona Bighorn Sheep Society member
Arizona Antelope Foundation member

Offline Skopia

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 02:27:51 PM »
Cement Man,
 Sorry for the absence. I have a part time job umpiring college baseball and the season really kicked in and I have been doing a lot of travel. I did receive my Buckmasters scope a few weeks ago. First, let me say that I am not a scope expert. I am very impressed with the scope with my initial inspection. It is definitely a full size scope, compared to my 2-7x32 Browning (Bushnell).
 It seems to be of very good quality. One thing that I am impressed with, as compared to my Browning Scope, is the 40mm ocular(?) I really like the added field of view, a lot. I have not mounted it on my Omega for obvious time restraints but can't wait to do so. Comparing the two scopes in low light seems to be a toss up. The only difference is that 40mm ocular gives you a larger field of view, which I think will give you a few more minutes of shooting time. (maybe).
 I do think that I will have to remove the rear sight when I mount the scope. I did not have to do that with the Browning.
 For the price that we paid, I don't think that you could have gotten a better value anywhere. Thank you for the heads up. When I get the scope mounted, which won't be for a while yet, I will let you know how everything goes.

Offline Ahab

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 08:44:35 AM »
Got mine last week and am extremely pleased with it. Now I'm gonna have to find a rifle for it. ;D
NRA Endowment
Arizona Bighorn Sheep Society member
Arizona Antelope Foundation member

Offline Cement Man

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yet another 4x scope question
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2009, 03:46:30 AM »
Skopia - PM sent.
CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.