Reflections on the past

[petemi]

I'm 68.  When I was a kid, I ran a little trapline going back and forth to school.  I kept my .22 or shotgun in my locker every day.  I later went to University of Maine.  We all kept guns in the dorm.  The Army Ranger that ran the ROTC program used to give us ammunition.  There were no campus shootings anywhere.  For that matter, I can't recall any shootings that didn't involve the law and criminals, and they were few and far between.  I think the first I can remember was the "Texas Tower" shootings, and I can't tell you when that happened.  I think that was what put the stop to guns on campus.

When I was at U of M, we frequently had our Forestry and Wildlife classes in the university forest.  About two thirds of us carried a sidearm, shotgun or rifle.  Not infrequently the Prof's lecture would be interrupted by a shot and a grouse or snowshoe would drop.

I've got to believe that if guns were again allowed on campus, it would be a huge deterent to these insane shootings.  If someone tried it, there'd be someone right there to stop it.

I sometimes wish I had been born thirty years earlier and didn't have to live through these times.

Pete

[LONGTOM]

I know what you mean Pete.
I was on the school shooting team in grade school and had a gun in the truck all the time I was at High school.
I still have one in the truck when I attend my boys ball games.
I just don't tell anyone!

The thought of that happening in schools today is something that most would be out raged over.
I am not sure that the students should have guns in school, although I am all for self defence, but kids are different today.
They haven't had the type of up bringing we had and a lot of them have no common sence.
Even having guns back when we were in school, if we had a problem the most that would happen is you would get in a fight.
It would be to easy to grab the gun and make a stupid mistake in todays world.
That being said, I feel there should be someone in the schools that is armed and trained to use a firearm in the event that one was needed.
What is wrong with hiring police to patrol the halls.
We pay for so much crap today, why not use some tax dollars to protect our kids.
I believe that had there been someone with the authority and training at the schools and colleges where these shootings occurred the out come may have been different.

Yes we may have been born a little late, (like maybe by about 150 years) but all we can do is teach our kids right from wrong and also a little respect and pray that we have done a good enough job that they can and will make the right decisions.
GOD I hope so!!!


LONGTOM

[hunt-m-up]

Sorry I'm not quite that old, but here's what I recall and lament...
I remember a classmate doing a demonstration on gun cleaning in 7th or 8th grade with a Browning BPS. A lot of us carried pocket knives of some shape or form. If they started going through vehicles in high school it would have yielded an arsenal of bows, rifles and shotguns, along with scoop shovels, pitchforks, traps and snares
And I recall a few kids who needed it getting slammed up against the wall by teachers who were as sick of their crap as the rest of us, but they had to stop us from doing it...if they saw us
They nailed some kids a few years back at a local high school for having shotguns in the cars/trucks for pheasant hunting after school, but they would probably allow them to have meth precursors in the same vehicle as long as the lab wasn't up and cooking.
Unfortunately, too many parents have stepped out of their role and thrown their kids to the wolves, hoping they don't do to much damage to the rest of society.

[magooch]

Yeah, when I was a kid (around 12 yrs old), my buddy and I both had .22 cal. rifles and we would walk right through the middle of down town with the rifles on our shoulders on our way to do some shootin.  Nobody gave us a second look and we never felt the least bit conspicuous.  Those really were the "good ole days."

[petemi]

I was stationed at Cecil Field, Florida outside of Jacksonville during the early 60s and would go into the local supermarket, coming home from hunting, with a handgun and knife on my hip and nobody gave it a second look.

I got stranded one time deer hunting in Florida not linking up with buddies and had to hitch hike home.  I had a handgun and knife on my belt and a .30-30 levergun in my hand.  The first vehicle to pass was a semi, and he picked me up.  He had a delivery at the State Prison, and said if I was still there outside the gate he'd pick me up coming out.  The first car out of the prison picked me up and dropped me off at my door.  Not likely to happen today.

Pete

[buffermop]

Gentlemen... Well said statements on this subject. I, for one, say society today has lost all common sense and respect for themselves and one another. Yes, bring back the good old days.

[SHOOTALL]

I hunted school property and carried a knife to school also . At our age it is easy enough to look back and see the change . We are now a nation that is a melting pot . When alot of us were in school we went with like people for the most part ( at least most wanted to learn ) . Today however schools are made up with many groups many bussed in to get the correct mix according to govt. qoutas . We are seeing the backlash of the dumbing down of America . It seems to be picking up speed !
In some colleges people are allowed to attend free to get the correct race mix . In our area there is a college that has been attended by Africa Americans for the most part . To get the numbers close whites can get in almost free . Can't help but wonder what the paying students think about the free riders ? It would seem that the education system as a whole has created tension on itself .

[Cement Man]

I went to two different high schools in the Chicago area in the early 60's.  One of them had a shooting club and a range in the basement.  You can bet that's long gone! 
We shot .22 rifles at Boy Scout camp in the 50's.  Almosts all of our fathers were WWII vets and we played "army" and "guns" every day.  In 1965, for our 19th birthday we got a free physical and a draft notice shortly thereafter. 
I observed many of my friends who grew up playing Audie Murphy, Range Rider, and Kit Carson to be brave and loyal soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines.  The "gun culture" didn't turn them into psychos - although VietNam vets have been unfairly portrayed that way too often.
Many of those that got college deferments didn't think it was too cool to be a GI, and showed little respect for our country, our heritage, and our veterans.  I think a lot of today's problems started then and there.

[LONGTOM]

All through grade school all the way through high school they would give you the day off on opening day of deer season because they knew over half the students wouldn't be there anyway.
Back then opening day was on a Monday!


LONGTOM

[petemi]

I too served during Vietnam, and bore the scorn of our "countrymen".  I still, sometimes, cry myself to sleep thinking about lost buddies there, and others horribly maimed.  I know it is continuing today in other places, but without the American fighting man, this country would not be free.  We all need to take a long look at that while the Liberals are trying to wrest our guns from us.

Pete

[petemi]

Longtom, Nov. 15th is a school holiday here, now.....opening day of rifle deer season.

Pete

[hunt-m-up]

I too served during Vietnam, and bore the scorn of our "countrymen".  I still, sometimes, cry myself to sleep thinking about lost buddies there, and others horribly maimed.  I know it is continuing today in other places, but without the American fighting man, this country would not be free.  We all need to take a long look at that while the Liberals are trying to wrest our guns from us.

Pete

Pete, thank you and others for your service. For those of us with morals and proper upbringing we only need to take a short look to understand.

[Heavy C]

While I'm not as 'seasoned' as you gentlemen I can certainly appreciate what you are saying.  Raising my daughter in this age of overwhelming political correctness I can assure you it is a never-ending struggle.  There is liberal crap at schools, on the radio, and of course television.

Too many people have forgotten their morals and values in lieu of what is popular.

My father left college to go into the Air Force and fought in Vietnam.  He raised me and my 3 brothers to be honest and live our lives with purpose.  We grew up in a house filled with firearms.  I was reloading 308's for my Dad and his buddies competing in silhouette shooting when I was 12.  Exposure and education about firearms and the shooting sports would do so much more for our country than any gun banning.  Parents have to be willing to be parents and not 'best friends' to their kids.

[LONGTOM]

Nov. 15th is a school holiday here, now.....opening day of rifle deer season.

Tha's the way it should be!

Parents have to be willing to be parents and not 'best friends' to their kids.

I try to be both but when it gets down to it I am a parent first!



LONGTOM

[Heavy C]

Parents have to be willing to be parents and not 'best friends' to their kids.

I try to be both but when it gets down to it I am a parent first!



LONGTOM
[/quote]

I know what you mean.  I was referring to the folks that skip being a parent and only want to be a best friend.

[Questor]

I'm glad I have this story to tell. George, if you're out there, God bless you.

When I was in 8th grade my science teacher, George, was an amateur gunsmith. My friend's father had an old Iver Johnson .22 revolver that needed some work and the teacher said I could bring it to him, but to be discrete about it. I put the gun in a paper bag and put it in my locker. I gave it to the teacher, who recrowned the barrel and worked on the timing, and cleaned up the finish. That was in urban Miami circa 1971. The teacher also gave an annual show and tell in the auditorium, where he brang several guns of historic significance in to show and describe for an assembly of hundreds of students.

Fast forward to 1980. I remember reading some American Rifleman magazines that year, but really had little interest in shooting at the time. There was quite a bit in those magazines about pending draconian gun laws being developed.

Fast forward to 1998, I got seriously interested in shooting and hunting. All of the draconican gun laws that the NRA warned about in 1980 had been enacted.

[slim rem 7]

  my story is just more of the same.. people minded thier buisiness..
 the law was a friend usually. people were who they were,, whether bigot or
of reasonable persuasion..bigot not just including racial but how a man looks at this earth an his fellow persons..
 i did what i wanted ,i was what i wanted to be..never socialy correct or politically correct .. just calling them as i saw them..
 i see people living under control of authorities as being the more likely case in the future..either you be as you are suppose to be an aknowledge the supreme authority an prosper ..or you are a marked person..politically correct or dead.. jmo.slim

[ironglow]

  Guys;
  I'm 72 now and brought up near but not in, small towns. I used to have a hunting buddy that lived on the  far edge of the small town (2500 people) and we used to either take our bike or walk..and go to each other's house to go hunting in neartby woods. In high school, I started a hunt/fish/conservation club. We used to have one day a week meetings, where we would demonstrate how to work on various gear. Often as not, that was one kind of gun or another. I can recall walking into the school from the bus, past the main office with one ...and I didn't even own a gun case.
   Guns haven't changed that much, people have..Starting in the "sickening sixties", insanity has gripped a fairly large proportion of our population (liberals) , who have entered into a hate decency, hate God, hate America mentality and have taught same to yopung, impressionable minds.
 
      The father of Rachel Scott, murdered at Columbine high school because she was a Christian..made ithe problems quite clear to our Congress, many of whom apparently were deaf on that day...

  father of 2 Columbine victims, speaks to Congress
May 27. 1999
Mr. Scott lost his daughter, his son is recovering.

(Transcription courtesy NRA Members' Council of Contra Costa County)
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At this very moment in a cemetery in Southern Denver - Chapel Hill Cemetary - they're erecting 13 crosses that I think are well known across the country, as a permanent memorial at the head of my daughter's grave. And my heart really longs to be there with my children, Bethany and her husband Don, Dana, Craig, and Mike, but it's with their blessing that I'm here today, and I appreciate that.

I realize that I'm a mere pawn in today's hearings, but I'm a willing pawn, because I dare to believe that I can make a difference. Every once in awhile, a pawn has been used to checkmate a king. I have no hidden agenda, and of course I have no political aspirations. I simply speak to you as a brokenhearted father, and I only ask that you allow your heart to hear me for the next few minutes.

Since the dawn of creation, there has been both good and evil in the hearts of men and women, and we all contain those seeds: We contain the seeds of kindness and we contain the seeds of violence. And the death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joyce Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other 11 children who died, must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used, neither was it the NCA - the National Club Association - the true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in his heart. In the days that followed the Columbine tradgedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA, I am not a hunter, I do not even own a gun, I'm not here to represent or to defend the NRA, because I don't believe they are responsible for my daughter's death, therefore I don't believe they need to be defended by me. If I believed that they had anything to do with Rachel's murder, I would be their strongest opponent. I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tradgedy, it was a spiritual event which should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies. Much of that blame lies here in this room - much of that blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves.

I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expressed my feelings best, and it was written before I knew that I would be speaking here today, and I'd like to read that:

 


Men and women are three part beings: we have a body, and we have a soul, and we have a spirit ... And I believe we fail to recognize that third element, that really does need to be recognized by the legislative bodies of this country, that's been ignored for so long. Spiritual influences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries, and we know this is a historic fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We've refused to honor God, and in doing so we opened the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tradgedy occurs, politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that continue to erode away our personal and private liberties.

We don't need more restrictive laws. Erik and Dylan would not have been stopped by more gun laws or metal detectors. No amount of laws can stop someone who spends months of planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our nation hold the key, and there is a spiritual awakening that is taking place that will not be squelched. We don't need more religion, we don't need more gaudy television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage, we do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people's basic needs are being ignored. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgement that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God.

When my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he didn't hesitate to pray in school, and I defy any law or politician to deny him that right. I challenge every young person in America and around the world to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School, prayer was brought back to our schools. Don't let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millenium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your conscience and denies your God-given right to communicate with Him.

And to those of you who would blame the NRA, I give to you a sincere challenge: dare to examine your own heart before you cast the first stone. My daughter's death will not be in vain: the young people of this country will not allow that to happen. And remember that even a pawn in a master's hand can accomplish much.

Thank you very much.
 


"...Columbine was not just a tradgedy, it was a spiritual event which should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies..."
 

 
 



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[gypsyman]

I'm 53, graduated HS in '73. Had temps to drive in '70. I couldn't tell you how many friends I had in HS, that had shotguns in the trunk of their car during the fall. It was a mad race to get out at 3:00, to go hunting with a couple buddies for a couple hours after school.
I remember a few times, one of my buddies would pick me up at 7:30 in the morning, and I would throw my gun and cloths in the back, just so I didn't have to stop at home to change.
Before I drove, it was very common to walk down the side of the road, shotgun broke open between fields, police would cruise by and wave. One time an officer stopped, didn't even get out of his car, just asked if we had any luck, and said be careful, and drove away. Fat chance of that happening in this day and age.  gypsyman

[petemi]

Mud Hen, clapper rail was the first season to open on September first when I was a kid.  The year I was 14 and able to hunt alone, I didn't sleep the whole night before.  Finally at about 3:30 a.m.  I gave up, got dressed and started walking to Lazy Point where I planned to hunt about 3 miles away.  I was walking down the road with my unloaded 12 ga. in my hand, when one of our local police officers pulled up.  He said "Hi Pete.  Where are ya headed?"  I told him and he said "It won't be light for almost 2 hours.  Why don't you hop in and well go to the station and get some coffee and when it starts getting light, I'll drop you off there."  When it was gray dawn, he dropped me off at the point and said he'd look for me coming out.  I shot my limit of birds by about ten and started walking home, so proud I was busting.  I hadn't gone a quarter mile when he pulled up and said "Hop in" and took me home.

In those days the police were our respected friends.

Just a side note, today Lazy Point is a bayfront community of million dollar homes.  No mud hens there now!

Pete

[rockbilly]

When Johnson begin increasing his “war machine” by calling Reserve and National Guard units to active duty in the mid-sixties, I had already served my first tour in Viet Nam and was selected as an advisor to an ANG unit being trained at Cannon AFB NM.  At first I worked my butt off, then one day the Commander called me in and informed me that I was there Just as an advisor, and that I only had to ensure the work was performed.  From that day forward I went to work each morning with my shotgun and bird dogs in the truck.  After checking on the aircraft and making sure there were no BIG maintenance problems I was off to chase Pheasants and Quail.

At the same time I enrolled at Eastern New Mexico University, I always had a gun in my truck, a Model 28 Smith hung in a holster on the emergency brake handle, and the shotgun was often in a rack in the rear window.  Never a problem at school or on the base, but this is not true today, driver through the gate of a military installation with a fire arm in the car and go to jail if caught, and it is also true for ammunition.  I haven’t visited ENMU is many years but I am sure it is the same there today.

As I recall, things begin to change in the early sixties.  I think TV and Dr. Spock played a large part in initiating the attitude change that has steered society to where we are today. More violence on TV, the move to stop punishment of children, letting little Johnny off the hook  because he didn’t get enough oatmeal cookies while growing up, the disappearance of kids working for what they want/need, and the fact that the younger generation want their wished fulfilled now, instance gratification.  But the largest and most important contributing factor, the absence of moral ethics and of assuming responsibility for one’s actions.

[petemi]

Rockbilly, your last line says it all.  The others are lack of self respect and respect for others.

Pete

[Default]

What you Old Dogs are discribing is where i live at this moment in time... First day of deer season here in my area of Arkansas is a free ditch day , Boys still show up to school with their rifles (hidden now of course) for hunting after school... Mind you there are somethings like the walking through town with a rifle that are frowned upon and would probably bring more trouble then not.. But hell i remember being 18 in a small texas town and walking back from the scrub land after plinking with my pellet gun and getting stopped by a local cop.. Seems he was called due to someone carrying a rifle through the streets... Fast forward to the day i killed my first buck ( 22 yrs old in Ark.).. I walked down the road from my folks ohhhh about 5 miles to a spot not but a stones throw from the local nuclear power plant in full camo , pack and SKS in tow ... Neither there or back after my sucess drew any unwanted attention ..

 And I still laugh when ppl ask me why i would ever want to live here versus Kalifornia ( where i was born and raised) and i do my best to tell them they arent missing anything by not living there ( Kali.)

  So i do feel very fortunate to live where i do , though i see some of the things i like about this area starting to dissapear , and some of the SH*T i was glad to leave in Kalifornia start to show its ugly face here .. I noticed it started after tons of displaced ppl from Louisiana's New Orleans area flooded in and saw how nice it was here and didnt go home after .... Grafiti !!
 Man I swear let me catch one of those lil *__insert blips here__* spray painting a wall of highway sign ... And you'll get to read about ol' default feeding a spray can to somebody *end venting*   But that is an example of the kind of things i dont miss ..

 Do what we can boys , and that is all we can do ... Tom hit it on the head , Be a Parent first and a friend if you can.

      Default

[Oldshooter]

when I was in High School in the late sixties,  We would drive around at night and shoot rabbits with headlights(legal here). There was trouble at times when some over zealous shooter shot a rabbit at someones front door, but it was a nass eating and off you went! We Duck hunted in a buddies back yard that faced a marsh. Neighbors would sit on their back porch and cheer when the ducks fell, and laugh when they didn't.  As a kid I bought shotgun shells by the shell(usually 3) then walk across the street under a 4 wire fence. and hunt rabbit and quail within yelling distance from my front door.

No one carried side arms in those days but the law. but everyone carried shotguns, and rifles in their trucks.
It was a different time then. Priorities were a world apart from what they are now.

My wife and I have brought 7 kids into this world(all grown), and I love them dearly. Had I known then what was going to be happening now, I dare say none of them would have been born! I have had a full, mostly happy life I do not fear for myself, I fear my children's lives will not be an easy row to hoe! And that My generation has let them down.

Pete,

 That was August 1 1966. Charles Whitman was the shooter . This incident is best known as the Texas Tower Sniper and is credited as being the sparking event for "The Birth of SWAT".

Randy

[ironglow]

Rockbilly;
  Your last paragraph in  your post #20 does an excellent job of summing up the situation. It is hard to believe that EVERYBODY cannot see where the problems started...anybody with a lick of sense, that is..

[kennyd]

My youngest fellow employee had a granddad who took his .22 to school for ROTC on the NEW YORK subway.  Not even in a case.  Try that now.  In Denver, we didn't have a place to hunt after school, but we had our $19.99 Mausers for parking lot show & tell. 

[petemi]

Randy, thank you.  I couldn't remember.  I was in Naples Italy at that time.  It really tore me up, because I knew our gun rights were in jeopardy then.

Pete