Muzzle Loader, Sighting In, Any easy way?

[Doc Lisenby]

I told a customer, I would do it now I'm dreading it.
When I sighted mine in I used the old shoot, look, cuss, bend barrel, etc. way.
It's hunting season and I don't have much time at the range, too many guns to repair.
Anyone have a quicker more efficient way?  I have one of those Leupold magnet sighters but I find that it isn't all that accurate. I can't look through the bore so boresighting is out.
Some of you must have an idea which I haven't thought of.
I think he said it was an in-line so maybe I can use the bore sight trick but if I can't how about an idea or two. He has a scope on it so I know that is a time consuming thing.  I usually have to remount scopes which I didn't mount myself. and more than once someone had used loc-tite on the screws.  I have even seen scopes which have suffered from the mount screws being tightened too much and the scope is under tension or bent.
How about an idea?
Doc Lisenby

[John Traveler]

Try this one:

Even some of the old-tyme gun makers are using high-tech equipment!

Get a couple of those cheap handheld slimline laser pointers.  You know which ones, the pocket pen-sized jobs or the small keyring jobs.  Try to get the kind that uses AAA batteries.  They are slimmer and cheaper to operate.

If you diassemble them, the guts are even smaller in diameter.

You need a couple to play with because sometimes the laser emitting head is misaligned (off boreline center).

Use a lathe to turn a housing (aluminum, brass, plastic, etc) to hold the laser pointer and be a slip fit into the BP muzzle loader bore.

To boresight, turn on the laser, and use a cleaning rod to seat into the bore at least half-way.

You boresight as normal, but at night or in a darkened hallway.

Once you've established boresight distance, it's a simple matter to determine scope elevation to put you "on target" at hunting distance.  SPELL OUT TO THE CUSTOMER what that distance is, and  write it down!

HTH
John

[John Traveler]

Oh, yeah!

I forgot a minor detail:

To REMOVE the laser pen after boresighting, use compressed air at the nipple to eject into a cushioned pad or box with rumpled newspapers.

Or, you can just be low-tech and pull it out using a string you thoughtfully attached before putting it in!

John

[Doc Lisenby]

Thanks John.  I have been trying to figure out something that these gadgets could be used for.  I am going to see if I can find one or two locally.  I have seen them in catalogs but not in stores.  Maybe teachers supply or a  good office supply has them.
I'm going to give it a rip and hopefully can get this rifle back to this dude before he goes hunting.
I appreciate your help.
Doc Lisenby

[gunnut69]

Sight in a muzzel loader (or any rifle) using the 3 shot method.  At 25 yards with a large cardboard(get them free at stores) afix a bull and using bags fire a shot.  If it feels good I break out the screw adjustable rest.  Can be done with any rest but one that the gun can be locked down in works best.  Clamp the rifle in the rest and adjust the rest so that the sight(or reticle) points at the aiming point you used to shoot at.  Then adjust the sight(or scope) until it points at the BULLET HOLE in the cardboard..  The rifle is sighted in..  Oh yea the third shot,, I use it when I know I muffed one of the other 2.  It usually averages out to about 3-4 shots per rifle..  Of course one needs to tune the zero when the target is moved to 100 yards but I really try to get the customer involved in that.  If not, a repeat of the first 2 shots will usually give the zero you wish.  Remember to allow the bullet strike to be a bit high at 100 yards to give the maximum point blank range..

[Doc Lisenby]

Thank you very much.  I usually do this but I've found that I save time by first boresighting to get on target.  If you don't think it is necessary, I'll try it. I have seen some rifles which are so bad that you have to have a BIG cardboard.   I will just get a bigger cardboard and hopefully I can get on. Thanks again.
Doc Lisenby

[gunnut69]

Doc
I've taken to using newsprint roll ends.  They are about 4 feet wide and as long as I need.  At 25 yards they are difficult to miss..  I guess I should add that I always boresight with a Bushnell Collumnator.  I use an expandable arbor that will go up to a 12 guage shotgun..  I used to go straight to the 100 yard range but would always have at least one that I couldn't hit the paper with and it added so much to the stress that I just start at 25 as a matter of course..  I look on my range time as a break from the shop and the computer.  I don't get nearly enough shooting any more and if I must take a customer's weapon to the range I always take a few of mine also to provide a bit of relaxation..

[John Traveler]

The sort of relaxation sounds OKAY to me!!!  *smile*

Hey, Gunut69!

Thanks for adding to the comment that the original Stevens Favorite was not suited for firing high-speed .22 LR ammunition.  I completely forgot about that!

I hope nobody goes ahead with that idea of rechambering the Favorrite for .22 Hornet!  Talk about a disaster waiting to happen!

John

[gunnut69]

John
You are certainly correct..  the Favorite is one of those actions that looks a lot stronger than it really is..  I've worked on too many that were shot loose to not understand their faults.  That said I do really like them.  they are generally good little rifles even if not as strong as a 44, 44 1/2, or a roller!  I've a Remington rolling block (No4) action in the to do bin now.  I bought it as a destroyed rifle many years ago and have just about desided to build a nice little 22 on it possibly using a GreenMountain tapered octogon barrel...  But I'm so backed up that it'll be a year before I can get to it..

[Doc Lisenby]

Thanks both of you to the ideas you presented.  It so happens that the rifle is a CVA inline so I just took the breech plug out and boresighted it. Now I'm sold on inline muzzle loaders.  Cleaning the bore is a breeze (and it can be cleaned from the breech end) :-D
I have a new Stevens Favorite I'm about to send back to the factory because the firing pin impact is displaced too far from the rim.  I asked a question somewhere as to whether this is common on the Canadian made production and if anyone has a similiar experience.  I have never seen it on the original Favorite.
That one you are going to re-barrel sounds good.  I put a Mossberg 22 LR barrel on my "cat gun" 22LR Favorite in the '50s.  It is a heavy barrel and shoots about as well with open sights as my Win M52 Target Rifle. Used to use it to shoot feral house cats and carried it in my Harley's saddle bags.
Had a 32 rimfire stolen from me which I bought in Albuquerque in the 60s.
Wish the new ones were as good and maybe this customer just got a lemon.
Doc

[gunnut69]

Doc
The piece I'm planning on rebarreling is a Remington rolling block, a No.4 action.  They are a pain to rebarrel as getting the block timming correct to allow the hammer to fall and maintain a tight headspace is a difficult but this one is an early solid frame model.  It's in great shape with most of the blue on the frame and everything iin working order.  It was a 32 I think but the barrel is a mess and the stock is completely gone.  I removed the barrel and am dreading cutting those threads but what the heck...  The roller has a couple of extra holes on the underside of the action.  One on either side of the bottome of the triggerguard.  They seem factory??and there is the outline of a piece of metal being attached there..  Any ideas what that might have been?  
  I've had mixed reviews on the new production Favorites but haven't made their acquaintance as of yet..

[Doc Lisenby]

Is it where the palm rest attached? I know they were used and I saw one on a Winchester Side Wall a long time ago and have seen pictures of them. I believe they attached somewhere in that area.
I'll try to find out, but all my buddies are on the second relay, 1st string, Heaven's Blue Team. All except the ones with Alzheimers or in rest homes making the "O" sign with their mouths.
Take care,
Doc

[gunnut69]

Doc
No the palm rest is up front and I believe that was a No.6..  in any case the palm rest was in the front.  It may have been some kind of improvised lower tang.  the No.4 Remingtons did not normally have a lower tang...

Don't laugh at the Alzheimers patients, I may be there sooner rather than later!!

[John Traveler]

Hey, Doc!

You're a medical person.....I seem to recall that CRS means something-or-other.  

I find it easier to say "Can't Remember Sheeeet"....

CRS John