Author Topic: You are being lied to about pirates  (Read 2268 times)

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Offline ms

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You are being lied to about pirates
« on: April 12, 2009, 07:51:14 AM »


You are being lied to about pirates

Johann Hari
San Francisco Bay View
Sunday, April 12, 2009

Who imagined that in 2009, the world’s governments would be declaring a new War on Pirates? As you read this, the British Royal Navy - backed by the ships of more than two dozen nations, from the U.S. to China - is sailing into Somalian waters to take on men we still picture as parrot-on-the-shoulder pantomime villains. They will soon be fighting Somalian ships and even chasing the pirates onto land, into one of the most broken countries on earth.

But behind the arrr-me-hearties oddness of this tale, there is an untold scandal. The people our governments are labeling as “one of the great menaces of our times” have an extraordinary story to tell - and some justice on their side.

Pirates have never been quite who we think they are. In the “golden age of piracy” - from 1650 to 1730 - the idea of the pirate as the senseless, savage thief that lingers today was created by the British government in a great propaganda heave. Many ordinary people believed it was false: Pirates were often rescued from the gallows by supportive crowds. Why? What did they see that we can’t?

In his book “Villains of All Nations,” the historian Marcus Rediker pores through the evidence to find out. If you became a merchant or navy sailor then - plucked from the docks of London’s East End, young and hungry - you ended up in a floating wooden Hell. You worked all hours on a cramped, half-starved ship, and if you slacked off for a second, the all-powerful captain would whip you with the cat o’ nine tails. If you slacked consistently, you could be thrown overboard. And at the end of months or years of this, you were often cheated of your wages.

Pirates were the first people to rebel against this world. They mutinied against their tyrannical captains - and created a different way of working on the seas. Once they had a ship, the pirates elected their captains, and made all their decisions collectively. They shared their bounty out in what Rediker calls “one of the most egalitarian plans for the disposition of resources to be found anywhere in the 18th century.”

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They even took in escaped African slaves and lived with them as equals. The pirates showed “quite clearly - and subversively - that ships did not have to be run in the brutal and oppressive ways of the merchant service and the Royal navy.” This is why they were popular, despite being unproductive thieves.

The words of one pirate from that lost age - a young British man called William Scott - should echo into this new age of piracy. Just before he was hanged in Charleston, South Carolina, he said: “What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirating to live.”

In 1991, the government of Somalia - in the Horn of Africa - collapsed. Its 9 million people have been teetering on starvation ever since - and many of the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country’s food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the U.N. envoy to Somalia, tells me: “Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it.” Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to “dispose” of cheaply. When I asked Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: “Nothing. There has been no cleanup, no compensation and no prevention.”

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia’s seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by over-exploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300 million worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia’s unprotected seas.

The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: “If nothing is done, there soon won’t be much fish left in our coastal waters.”

This is the context in which the men we are calling “pirates” have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a “tax” on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coast Guard of Somalia - and it’s not hard to see why.

In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was “to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters … We don’t consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas.” William Scott would understand those words.

No, this doesn’t make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Program supplies. But the “pirates” have the overwhelming support of the local population for a reason. The independent Somalian news site WardherNews conducted the best research we have into what ordinary Somalis are thinking - and it found 70 percent “strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defense of the country’s territorial waters.”

During the revolutionary war in America, George Washington and America’s founding fathers paid pirates to protect America’s territorial waters, because they had no navy or coast guard of their own. Most Americans supported them. Is this so different?

Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our nuclear waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We didn’t act on those crimes - but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit corridor for 20 percent of the world’s oil supply, we begin to shriek about “evil.” If we really want to deal with piracy, we need to stop its root cause - our crimes - before we send in the gunboats to root out Somalia’s criminals.

The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarized by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know “what he meant by keeping possession of the sea.” The pirate smiled and responded: “What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor.”

Once again, our great imperial fleets sail in today - but who is the robber?

Postscript: Some commentators seem bemused by the fact that both toxic dumping and the theft of fish are happening in the same place - wouldn’t this make the fish contaminated? In fact, Somalia’s coastline is vast, stretching 3,300km (over 2,000 miles). Imagine how easy it would be - without any coast guard or army - to steal fish from Florida and dump nuclear waste on California, and you get the idea. These events are happening in different places but with the same horrible effect: death for the locals and stirred-up piracy. There’s no contradiction
 
 

Offline Arier Blut

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2009, 08:35:53 AM »
No MS not being lied to, that was a left wing slanted article on feel sorry for the murderous thieving scum. Not much different than how the same crowd portrays our own scum in this country. Telling how it's alright for them to rape, murder and rob due to their environment.

The same things happen off the coast of many countries including this one with the toxic waste. The Somalian dictators traded off their resorces for guns to kill the opposition. Not a story of poor guys need a break. They live in a country that has no rules besides those with the best guns do what ever they want. It also failed to mention the majority of the populations drug use. They chew on the natural stimulant all day. They could have a productive society but would rather live the life they have chosen it seams. Every human being has the ability to possess a conscience and do what they think is right. Those who choose not to and would rather rape murder and steal do not deserve pity for their lifestyle.

 Piracy is prevalent off the coast of FL as well with Cuba and South of CA with Mexico. It is just not reported because they do not take hostages. The targets are US Citizens. Piracy is still very widespread all over the world. It is just being focused on in this specific location.

Offline stubshaft

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 09:45:32 AM »
Walks like a duck, Talks like a Duck, Looks like a pirate to me ::)
If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong.

Offline alsaqr

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 10:50:17 AM »
Quote
No MS not being lied to, that was a left wing slanted article on feel sorry for the murderous thieving scum. Not much different than how the same crowd portrays our own scum in this country.



My sentiments exactly.  The editor of that piece of trash is a whiney, scum loving liberal and an apologist for murderers. 

Offline ms

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2009, 12:00:52 PM »
Quote
No MS not being lied to, that was a left wing slanted article on feel sorry for the murderous thieving scum. Not much different than how the same crowd portrays our own scum in this country.



My sentiments exactly.  The editor of that piece of trash is a whiney, scum loving liberal and an apologist for murderers. 
HA HA  :D

Offline gypsyman

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 03:07:51 AM »
Kinda reminds me of the judge that made the statement years ago. It's the womens fault for being raped. Best thing to do is lie back and enjoy it. It's our fault that these poor, down troden,pirate's do what they do. We 'caused them to turn into criminals. Maybe we should send them a stimulus package. Newer boats with bigger outboards, so they can catch more and bigger ships to hold for ransom. More guns and ammo. Yea, thats it. Make them better pirate's. Wouldn't their mother be proud!! gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline torpedoman

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 08:10:29 AM »
Where is the big red B.S. stamp????
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 08:48:08 AM »
HERE YOU GO
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 05:54:30 AM »
I think ms does have a point here that we Americans don't want to hear. Rather than jumping to a military "solution", which never solves anything, we might want to step back and ask ourselves why people are driven to risk and even sacrifice their lives in attempting to resolve situations beyond their control. There are valid reasons why the U.S. is despised all around the world.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline stubshaft

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2009, 04:30:53 PM »
Why should we be our brothers keeper?  I don't care if a Somalian citizen chooses to resort to a life of crime.  I am not responsible for his welfare and living conditions.  Neither should the United States!  An american citizen (who happens to be homeless) freezes to death in New York.  The media closes a blind eye toward it.  A Somalian piece of garbage hi-jacks a ship and I am supposed to be interested in his plight.  HORSEPUCKEY.

If the homeless man in New York robbed a bank and killed a teller.  Do YOU think that we should spend the time to:
A)  Negotiate with him?
B)  Seek a peaceful resolution?
C)  Put him on the welfare rolls and let him be a burden to hardworking Americans?
D)  Put a bullet between his eyes?

NOW substitute the Somalian.  What does he bring to the table that will affect the bettering of life in America?

NOT ONE DARN THING!

The military "solution" does solve one thing.  It eliminates one (1) piece of garbage that can harm AMERICAN CITIZENS!
If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2009, 02:54:51 PM »
You seem to forget we already tried the military solution there and we've been trying the same in Iraq and Afghanistan for six years now and we are in no way better off than before we started, nor are the people of those countries nor is our standing in the world. If you're saying we should stay at home and mind our own business I totally agree, if you're saying we should keep invading foreign countries you are totally hopeless.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2009, 04:23:26 PM »
I'm not gonna get into a spitting contest about who's better off cause I aint been there before nor after!

My perception is my reality and my perception is that both of those countries had the opportunity to be better off if that is what they wanted out of us going there! I think they as country chose not to be if they are not! The old lead em to water thing!

As to our invading other countries I agree! This country has no business invading nowhere! We dont have the resolve nor the fortitude to invade and do diddley!  A great military does not a great country make. It is best that we sit here and get as much intelligence as we can to stop a terrorist attack and just wait for the one that gets through! Then we just go to the United Nations and ask them to please stop the terrorist ! I personally dont give a rats behind if we are attacked again. I dont live in a large city and I dont fly! If they come here to my corner of the woods I will deal with that the best that I can! I dont have Sons nor daughters in the military and I'm glad of that because for the most part "we" as country dont deserve what they sacrifice, "WE" are weak and have no spirit, resolve, nor a Memory!
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline stubshaft

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2009, 07:45:58 PM »
You seem to forget we already tried the military solution there and we've been trying the same in Iraq and Afghanistan for six years now and we are in no way better off than before we started, nor are the people of those countries nor is our standing in the world. If you're saying we should stay at home and mind our own business I totally agree, if you're saying we should keep invading foreign countries you are totally hopeless.

I am not in favor of invading other countries.  I AM saying that we should take care of problems within our borders first.  I am also saying that we should not hesitate to use deadly force when American interests are threatened.
If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2009, 05:45:32 AM »
Well it is that "use of force when American interests are threatened" which has made us despised the world over and that is why we have terrorists attacks in the U.S. Throughout history, and especially in the 20th century, the U.S. has not been the kindly guardian of peace we would like to believe but has been the bully of the block, using military force to overthrow foreign governments and set up puppets willing to do business with U.S. corporations on our terms. We started by killing the American Indians to steal everything they had and when we ran out of Indians we just continued that same policy overseas. I am glad to have been born in the good ol U.S.A and was proud to be American when I joined the army in '63, but seeing how our country has ripped off the rest of the world I am certainly not proud of our foreign policy and having learned a bit of the truth behind our history I realize I never should have been proud of it.
 Iraq is a fine example. We were told we invaded to "free" the Iraqi people and for a while they were saying "thanks for getting rid of Saddam, but now go home". Six years later we are still an oppressive occupying power and no one anywhere in the world can thank us for that. Bad as Saddam may have been the people all agree that their lives were better before we came. The only thing we have accomplished is to create many more terrorists all over the world, terrorists who hate us not for anything we do at home but for what we do in their own countries. Iraq was the most prosperous nation in that part of the world, people had food, water, transportation, schools and hospitals. Now, thanks to our military actions, they have nothing but a great and ever growing hatred of America. Who can blame them?
 American "interests" in foreign nations should be by invitation and when invited to leave we should do so. In short, we should become the kind of country our propaganda system has tried to tell us we have always been.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2009, 02:27:38 AM »
Al Sharpton agrees with ms
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2009, 03:21:33 PM »
Quote
A great military does not a great country make.
A great country does make a great military, however - Right makes might. We're not right anymore, but we could be again.

Somalis and Yemenis are culturally addicted to a class 3 narcotic known as Khat (or Quat); they chew it for hours every afternoon, male and female alike, typically starting around 12 years old. My family lived in downtown Djiboutiville and you just knew not to leave the house during those hours as it got pretty violent (my son witnessed his first beating with a pipe when he was 5, and then a stoning a few mos. later). It cannot grow in most of Somalia, Yemen or Djibouti (or Canada, Michigan or Arizona where the Somali population still use it). It takes 5 hours to collect mail but within 20 mins. of the plane full of Khat landing at the Airport, you can get it fresh anywhere in the city. 1 hour and you can get it all the way across the Gubet near Eritrea. Where is it grown, you ask?

Ethiopia is aided by the US to the tune of hundreds of millions annually. Ethiopia's primary cash crop used to be coffee, then the starbucks craze hit in the US and their market was killed, so the farms had to convert to a crop they could sell in order to survive famine. When I left in 2003, most of all farming in Ethiopia was Khat. All of the Khat in Djibouti came straight from Ethiopia. Most of the Khat worldwide comes from Ethiopia. Yes, our fascination with a $4 latte pushed an entire national economy into narcotics. Yes, our US subsidies to encourage farming to offset starvation and famine have gone to better farming practices, tools and training for narcotics growth.  Its considered okay though; Americans don't use Khat. Only Somalis and Yemenis do.

Want to hear about how Bin Laden modernized opium production in Afghanistan to fund terrorism? Guess where the largest market for UBL Heroin is? Ask a college kid in the US where to get some UBLs. One of my sailors lost a close friend to a heroin OD this week; she died not realizing that she had been funding terrorists and implementing the intentional destabilization of American culture. She just thought it was cool. But we're not allowed to burn the poppy fields because NATO fears it will destabilize the economy of the legitimate government, which sells morphine to pharmaceutical companies.

Crime is crime, but never for a moment imagine that we do not bring some of it on ourselves by our own policies.
held fast

Offline teamnelson

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2009, 06:52:14 AM »
Opium production never stopped under Taliban; Bin Laden brought Russian chemists in to modernize production when he arrived and moved from a million to a billion dollar source of income. Afghani use may have slowed but not production. That's on international record.

And every Muslim country I've lived in (15) has rampant drug use. Most folks fail to realize how little the average Muslim knows much less practices regarding Islam. Imams are most often illiterate and only able to recite Quranic passages from memory but not read at the level a seminary graduate may read greek. I've heard sermons by esteemed Imams that were so far off the sura it was clearly political and not theological. Who eats the pigs in Egypt? Or buys liquor in Jordan? Not just Copts.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2009, 07:02:12 AM »
Seems I remember that the "pilots" of those fictitious planes that did not fly into the WTC spent a lot of their time in Strip joints while waiting for orders. Maybe "they" just use religion like some do here, when it suits their purpose, and follow the scripture they agree with.
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline jamesrus

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2009, 04:16:59 AM »
First off the reason we had the problems in Somalia the first time we were there is , we were hampered by that useless piece of crap that is called the UN. If we went back to kicking ass and taking names like in WW2 then we wouldnt have the problems we got  now.  Blow their asses out of the water and be done with it.

Jamesrus

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2009, 04:26:18 AM »
TM,

I never really know where you are gonna come from next!(and I think that is no accident)!
Hard to determine whether you are wacked out, or a wizzard! Sometimes when I'm thinking I should saddle up and hunt you down to put you out of your misery, You'll pop up and make a post that makes me want to back you in a run for public office! Watching you run around this forum is like the mountain lion hunt I went on, Really enjoying the thrill of the stalk, yet constantly watching over my shoulder for the pounce that would make me the prey! Now, if we can just channel your wizardry towards something constructive  we may can save you from termination!  ;)

“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline teamnelson

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2009, 02:27:51 PM »
Taliban restricted opium production in 2000 only in an attempt to establish an air of legitamacy to their control of Afghanistan. Idealogically they never changed, specifically touting it's use by Western infidels. Per your own article, who controlled Afghanistan in the 90's when production was as high as it is now. That region and culture have been making heroin as long as there have been Taliban.

UBL heroin is all over open source - you can pick and choose which source you prefer if it doesn't suit your hermeneutic I suppose.

TM7, you strike me as an intelligent and thoughtful person. I would think it must be very frustrating for you to rely so strongly on 2nd hand info.
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2009, 08:23:17 AM »
My Dad used to call it going to the Throne possibly harkening back to days of discontent with the crown.

Linguistically, the word Al Qaeda does mean a place of strengh, like a foundation or seat (as in seat of power). It is also used generically to refer to the government without a double entendre implied. Just because it is euphemistcally applied to a toilet is insufficient evidence to suggest it's all a hoax. As I'm sure you'd agree, we use idioms in English all the time that are very confusing without context.

The verb used here "raicha" (not qaeda as has been suggested) which is in the present tense and has no connotation with bodily function. You could use that phrase to say I am taking a seat at the dinner table and it would be accurate.

Much ado about nothing.
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Offline Dee

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2009, 09:29:12 AM »
The question is: You are being lied to about pirates.
Are we really? Did not these thieves board an unarmed American vessel (or any other vessel for that matter) and try to take innocent non-combatants hostage for MONEY?
If the answer is yes, then shoot'em. There are some in this world that understand nothing else.

Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California were taken by force from Mexico. Perhaps they too are justified in re-claiming their loss, although their actual claim was never anything more than a "claim".
Now I as a Texan, will admit that I fail to see the wisdom in retaining what is known as El Paso, Texas, and the entire area known as California. These both seem a waste of the taxpayer dollar. I would however, if given the choice be willing to keep El Paso, and gladly abandon all claim, and even knowledge of California. :-[
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Dee

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Re: You are being lied to about pirates
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2009, 11:18:29 AM »
Can't disagree with you Dee, especially if small arms fire and rockets are coming my way from uninvited boarders.
But don't you think we have a duty and right to dig deeper, drill down, on some of this stuff going on to see what is behind it as Christian men of conscience? True, we might find there isn't much to it except a bunch of renegades living outside the law??  You and I, perhaps in a different time, place, and conditions would never do that.. ;) ;), right?

..TM7   

Well TM7, I tell you what. I don't care what the circumstances are, or what these folks plight are. If they are boarding "merchant ships" by force with weapons for financial gain. Stealing and murdering innocents is just that. Stealing and murdering. If one needs help one needs to ask in a proper way.
It would be like you or me breaking into the others house while one of us was home. Somebody is going to get killed, and well they should. Knocking on the door is acceptable. Forcing is asking for what one deserves. There is never a "good" reason to behave in such a manner. This isn't happening to one country. This is happening to "any country" foolish enough to enter that strait unarmed.
When the wolf is tearing down the door, this Christian man, is going to set up an appointment for the wolf to meet with God. He can explain it to Him, as I have not the temperament nor the patients for a thief or a bully.
Everything that happens in this world is not some underlying governmental issue. Some people are just born thieves and bullies, and need shootin.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett