loading long Keith style 44's

[AtlLaw]

Got an order of cast bullets from MBW's.     Nice bullets, but all 3 types I ordered came sized .001 larger then the dia. I had asked for.     No biggy.   

For personal defense in my medium frame, 2" Bbl., 5 shot Taurus Tracker I got a couple of hundred 250 gr. Keiths  (15BH), advertised as cast from a RCBS 82080 mould.  I had worried that they may be to long for the Taurus cylinder and, sure 'nuff, if I had crimped them in the crimping grove they would have been waaaay to long!     Fit the Ruger SBH just fine though... 

So, when I loaded enough to test on my next range trip I crimped them on the front (upper, first, whatever) driving band for an OAL of, as I remember, 1.800".  If the bullets don't move forward under recoil I should be in good shape.  And, since my defense load using Unique is only around 900 fps, a heavy crimp should hold the bullet in place... I hope...   

However, I want to seat them even deeper as, for this use, I don't want to take ANY chance on binding up the cylinder.

Has anyone tried crimping this style bullet ahead of, or actually over, the front driving band?   

BTW, got 260 gr. LBTWFN's @ 22 BH for hunting with the Ruger SBH this year and some 500 grainers to play with in my 45-120!   

[Graybeard]

Trim a few cases for your defense loads to whatever length is needed to allow you to crimp in the crimp groove. The RCBS bullet does seem to have a longer nose than the Lyman 429421 Keith bullet.

[GameHauler]

Grasshopper! Why you not think of that
Master GB teach you so much.
You must think like Master before you leave

[Paladin]

why not load them in 44 special cases?

[AtlLaw]

Trim a few cases for your defense loads to whatever length is needed to allow you to crimp in the crimp groove.

Duh!    Once again the obvious eludes me!   

Grasshopper! Why you not think of that

durn! I dunno...    As soon as Bill'um said it I said to myself, "self, why didn't you think of that!?"   

why not load them in 44 special cases?

And that was my next thought!   

Geeeese you guys are good!   

[Lloyd Smale]

both gave you good advice. Also it is fine to crimp over the top driving band. I do it all the time in short cylinder guns. I was fooling with a short cyl 41 mag one day at the range with ammo like that and also had my smith 58 along. Low and behold the smith shot that ammo better then it has ever shot any load so it just goes to show you you never know. One other advantage to crimping over the driving band is that its very secure and about impossible for a bullet to jump crimp like that.

[Savage]

why not load them in 44 special cases?

When I first read this post, I assumed, (Yeah I know) that AtlLaw was loading .44 spl !! Guess it was the 5 shot snubbie thing.
Savage

[kitchawan kid]

I would advise against using any reload for your self-defence load,lawyers we chew you up in court.

[Savage]

I would advise against using any reload for your self-defence load,lawyers we chew you up in court.

Those words of wisdom keep popping up on the internet. Still haven't seen any reliable documentation to support it. I don't use reloads in my social guns, but not for that reason. I use premium factory ammo because I can't load anything better with the resources available to me.
Savage

[cjclemens]

why not load them in 44 special cases?

I dunno if its an issue with a .44 magnum, but loading .357 powered loads in a .38 special can cause your cylinder to take an egg shape.  You wont notice it until it starts getting hard to eject your brass.  Safe bet would be to trim your .44 mag brass just enough to crimp into the groove.

I would advise against using any reload for your self-defence load,lawyers we chew you up in court.

Does anyone have any more info regarding this?  It sounds interesting, and I'd like to know more about it.

[Savage]

Does anyone have any more info regarding this?  It sounds interesting, and I'd like to know more about it.

There must be hundreds of threads on this subject. I bet a quick search will net you all you want to read!

Savage

[Graybeard]

There are LOTS of times folks have made the comment over the years. BUT to the best of my knowledge no one has ever come up with a single instance where it mattered. Does it matter then? I dunno but tend to stay with factory just in case. Here in Bama where we have the castle doctrine law in place I really don't think it would matter. In states where it would you'd likely not be able to legally carry or use force anyway.

[gypsyman]

Somebody on GB's site a year ago or so, posted a criminal case, where a girl was shot and killed. Either her boyfriend/husband had reloaded the ammo that was in the gun. And the local prosecuter was making a big deal out of it. But I believe the case was dropped. I do remember Masaab Ayoub use to make a point of it, in his articles, but that was more towards ammo that police officers used. Their always being scrutinized anyway, and if one of them ever shot somebody with one of their handloads, I'm sure hell would be paid by the officer. As far as common citizens are concerned, would it really make a difference if you shot somebody with a reloaded .357/158gr H.P., or a factory 12ga. with 4 shot. gypsyman

[gypsyman]

Forgot to mention, the girl that was shot, it was ruled an accidental shooting, she was handling the gun, and evidently pulled the trigger. The boyfriend/husband was not accused of doing the shooting. gypsyman

[Reed1911]

In the few cases I have been privy to (indirectly, no 1st hand experience) the question was never asked of where the ammo came from. Granted this is OK and we are very pro-gun, but I really don't see many investigators  asking. Unless the brass is so used that it shows considerable wear why would the question ever come up?

[AtlLaw]

to the best of my knowledge no one has ever come up with a single instance where it mattered.

+1

This has been discussed ad nasium on many sites all because of something Ayoub or Cooper or some such personage once said many moons ago.   

[mdi]

FWIW;

I read an article a few years back by Ayoub, about a court case in which he testified as an "expert witness". A self defence shooting if I can recall correctly where the defendant used handloads to shoot and kill the attacker/burgler/general bad person. The Prosecution was trying to hang the defendant because of his use of "Killer Rounds"; specifically loaded for that reason only. Don't have any details, but it sounds like something that would happen in my home state of CA.