Looking for pictures

[FTB1-SS]

Well I would like (need) to start a new project and am looking for some pictures of a civil war era navel 4-truck carriage. There are not many around on the net, so any would be appreciated. This is the one I had in mind, looking for detail on the irons that wrap around the steps going up the side.

[cannonmn]

Maybe I don't understand your question, but if I'm looking in the same place you are, there isn't any iron around the steps, that area is all wood.

Did I misunderstand?  Why do you think there is iron around the steps?

[KABAR2]

I think he is seeing the curved lines marked "C" as iron banding the man who

drew this has two curved lines so it does look a little like a separate piece there

that could appear to be banding. all photo's of this type of carriage don't show

banding it would have little use in the carriage's design. 

[Double D]

"C" could be draft. Or it could be moulding.

[MikeR C]

DoubleD,
You are close. If you look very closely at the elevation drawing (sideview)you will see a very short line beneath the rear wheel, this short line is level with the bottom of the front wheel, not the line you see connecting the bottom of the wheels. The carriage rear is slightly higher than the front. The double lines in the plan view (top view) are the top edge and base of each step. If you printed the elevation drawing and checked with a square you would find the steps edge are not verticle. hence in the plan view there are two lines. The "c" denotes "steps"
The white squares labled 14 are, however, inset "Chafing plates of steps and brackets". (Brackets are the large side pieces)

I would like to know what "F" is. I believe it is a dumb truck, something close to what my dad use to call me, there is one front and rear behind/between the wheels. I have searched for info but have never found anything...

Thx
MikeR C

[Cannoneer]

FTB1-SS,

 Take a look at this thread near the bottom of the forum's first page: "Replica, "City Class," Federal Gunboat, Cairo in Memphis, TN," and on page 2, "Arsenal rebuild M-1841 42 PDR model."

[Cannoneer]

The white squares labled 14 are, however, inset "Chafing plates of steps and brackets". (Brackets are the large side pieces)

MikeR C,

 Right Mike, those are iron plates to prevent the surface of the wood steps from wearing due to the use of handspikes in elevating the barrel.

I would like to know what "F" is. I believe it is a dumb truck, something close to what my dad use to call me, there is one front and rear behind/between the wheels. I have searched for info but have never found anything...

I thought the 'g' denoted the axletree, the 'D' - the front and rear axle beds, and the 'F' - the wooden trucks themselves. 

[A.Roads]

It is possible that "f" represents the trucks & "F" may represent the semicircular dotted line behind the trucks & below the axletrees, these would be fighting blocks. They are fixed blocks below the axle & don't quite make contact with the deck. If a wheel is damaged or smashed in action the guns rests on these "fighting blocks" & the gun can stay in action. Adrian

[cannonmn]

If a wheel is damaged or smashed in action the guns rests on these "fighting blocks" & the gun can stay in action.

Thanks, I'm sure that's what the dotted lines marked "F" are; I hadn't run across that term before, and the function makes perfect sense.

[FTB1-SS]

Thank you all for the information, I saw the double lines on the shoulder and thought iron. Here is the index for the drawings. I am thinking of making the overall carriage length 20.125 inches long. Drawings did not have and full size OAL.

[Double D]

I hijacked this from Brokenpoles album.

[FTB1-SS]

Thanks that is a great pic! 

[Cannoneer]

It is possible that "f" represents the trucks & "F" may represent the semicircular dotted line behind the trucks & below the axletrees, these would be fighting blocks. They are fixed blocks below the axle & don't quite make contact with the deck. If a wheel is damaged or smashed in action the guns rests on these "fighting blocks" & the gun can stay in action. Adrian

Mike, you were right; thanks to Adrian, I now understand what you meant by 'dumb truck': I've never seen those terms, or the words 'fighting blocks' used (or described) before, nor have I ever seen them shown in a carriage drawing (I get a warm fuzzy feeling when I'm taught something I didn't know, thanks to you both). I cropped Sharon's photo of the reproduction Cairo carriage, and the dumb truck can be plainly seen; they can't be discerned on photos I have saved of the original carriages, but I think that may be due to the fact that they had to be removed because of the way the carriages were mounted for display in the outdoor museum framework.





There's something else on this carriage drawing that I haven't seen before; on the nomenclature list that has been posted, WOOD PARTS: C. Breast Piece (elsewhere I've seen this called a bumper), and METAL PARTS: #9. Two hinges of Breast Pieces.
Why was this bumper hinged; what purpose did it serve? It doesn't seem like it would serve any purpose when housing, or securing the gun for sea. The only thing I can come up with is that in the up position it would allow the gun to be run out a few inches further, and the bracket ends could abut the bulwarks; but what would this enhance?
None of the photos of the Cairo's original carriages (nor reproductions) show this feature.

[A.Roads]

This naval carriage design is quite an interesting one as it incorporates features usually found on a number of carriages & not often brought together. The hinged breast piece is one of these & there must have arisen some minor disadvantage from having a breast piece fitted which was negated by the ability to swing the beast piece out of service, though I can not think of what the disadvantage may have been to warrant adding the hinges as a further feature.
Perhaps the only feature absent is a device to prevent the quoin from shifting or flying when fired as was sometimes fitted to British naval carriages of approximately this period.     
Adrian

[Cannoneer]

I went surfing with some serious intent yesterday, and turned up this book: "Treatise on Ordnance and Naval Gunnery" by Lieut. Edward Simpson. First printed in 1861, it was used as a text-book at the U.S. Naval Academy until 1868. The drawings of a 4-truck carriage used in this book are identical to the carriage shown in this thread.

"166. Breast Piece. The inner part of the breast piece slides into a mortice in the brackets in front of the transom ; the height of its position in the carriage equals that of the lower sill of the port. The outer part hinges on the inner part. When the outer part is turned up, the carriage can be run out so as to have its fore trucks resting against the waterways, while the breasts of the brackets rest against the spirketting; by this means the weight of the gun and carriage is not allowed to concentrate on any one point of the side, a consideration of much importance when the guns are secured for sea, and the ship rolling heavily; when the outer part of the breast-piece is down, the fore trucks are brought well inboard, clear of the waterways, and the arc which the breast piece then presents to the spirketting enables the gun to be trained laterally, which is impossible when the gun is run out with the breast piece up."

Adrian, the drawings of this state of the art (soon to be phased out), 4-truck wooden carriage certainly do seem to display all the bells and whistles.

"167. Bed and Quoin. The bed and quoin are arranged to produce all the elevation and depression that the port admits; and, to prevent the quoin from flying out under the shock of firing, it is furnished with an iron projection on the bottom, which catches in the ratchett secured to the bed. The bed is kept in its place by being keyed to the bed bolt, as under fire it tends to fly forward. The inner end of the bed is supported by the stool, which rests on the rear axle-tree."

[A.Roads]

Excellent work BoomJ !