Author Topic: 6.5-06 or 280 AI  (Read 5364 times)

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 6.5-06 or 280 AI
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2009, 04:28:34 AM »
I am thinking of having a rifle built on a Howa action I have lying around. I have narrowed it down to these to rounds 6.5-06 or 280 AI. It would be whitetail and occasional longer range varmint gun. Just curious to get some input on owners of the two.

hankster76 –

As you’ve no doubt realized after reading my posts, I am a fan of the 6.5’s.  Although there is nothing “magic” about them, they are very efficient long range performers when measured in terms of recoil.

The .270 Win is perhaps the best dedicated deer cartridge, at least for western states where shot opportunities can be on the long side – recoil is at a level most people can easily tolerate and with 130g bullets it can deliver over 2100fps/1200fpe past 500 yards.  It is certainly adequate for larger game as well.  When it comes to varminting it works wonderfully for the occasional shot at a coyote but is generally considered too much gun for high volume dog town shooting.

The .280 AI is more of the same – an excellent deer cartridge that is quite suitable for larger game and generally too much of a good thing when it comes to varminting. Heavier bullets and more powder translate to more recoil than the .270 Win.

The 6.5-06 is in the same class as the .270 Win when it comes to recoil and bullet weights, but the higher Ballistic Coefficients of the 6.5mm bullets give it an edge in downrange performance.  It is also an excellent deer cartridge that is quite suitable to use on larger game (the 6.5x57 was the number one moose cartridge in Sweden for many years and is still very popular).  Like the any cartridge based on the full-length .30-06 case it is perhaps a bit much for high volume varminting.

For deer you simply don’t need anything more than a good 130g bullet.  The Scirocco II provides a BC of .571 for excellent long range performance.  Driven to 3100fps with 53.0g of powder you’re looking at 16 pounds of recoil in an 8.3 pound rifle and scope combination, yet at 750 yards you’re looking at retained velocity and energy levels of 2000fps and 1150fpe.  (OK, the velocity is only 1996fps per the calculator…)  Given a target 6” in diameter, Maximum Point Blank Range is 312 yards and at 500 yards the drop is only 26”.  Switching bullet to a 130g AccuBond, with a lower BC of .488, provides 2000fps and 1150fpe at about 640 yards.  Drop at 500 yards is then 29” with MPBR of 308 yards.

If you were going for elk I might recommend the .280AI – I’ve been hunting elk since 1982 with a 7mm RM and a 160g bullet.  Let me just say that combination works very well.  So do .270’s and 6.5’s and even .25’s – in my experience placement is king with bullet selection more important than caliber or bullet weight.  I hunt elk and deer in combined seasons most years, usually with both a bull and cow tag in my pocket.  After my first elk is down I generally focus on deer, usually with my backup rifle.  That backup rifle, on more than one occasion, has been my .257 Roberts pushing 115g TSX a smidge over 3000fps.  I wouldn‘t hesitate to drop an elk with the Roberts, although not at the longer ranges where I would use my 7mm RM or .300 WM.  Once my 6.5-06AI is up and running there is no range I’d use my magnums for elk that I wouldn’t use the 6.5 just as quickly.

In short, if I were you I’d choose the 6.5-06 and never look back.  You can purchase properly headstamped brass or form it by simply inserting a boattail 6.5 in a .25-06 case.  Obviously the 6.5-06AI, should you choose to go that route, requires fire-forming as well.

Low recoil, excellent bullet selection, excellent downrange ballistics and easy case forming – not sure what there isn’t to like about the 6.5-06.




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Offline nomosendero

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Re: 6.5-06 or 280 AI
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2009, 05:11:41 AM »
You have thought this out very well CH & I agree, esp. in the context of what hankster wants to accomplish, "Whitetail and occassional longer range varmit gun", for this application I believe the 6.5-06/AI
is the ticket. If a "volume" rifle was needed for targets, I would look at the smaller 6.5 rounds designed for that if Elk & other large game was on the menu, I would go with the 280AI. But with hankster's needs in mind, it is a great choice.

I have rounds on both sides & all around & I would have no real need, but I have considered getting a Sav. & getting a 6.5-06AI & a hot 9.3 round on the '06 case head & maybe an 06' barrel to have on hand in case the rifle winds up with one of my sons someday as they don't reload. I may get to that & I may not.
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Offline archerross

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Re: 6.5-06 or 280 AI
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2009, 05:35:37 AM »
It sounds to me that the 6.5-06 may be hedging the 280 AI for this application.  Not surprising given the utility of the 6.5 bullets and lighter recoil than the 280 AI...unless you throw a break on it.

Coyote Hunter-

I too have become quite the fan of the 6.5. I've been working on a 130gr Scirocco load in my 6.5-284 and have had a nagging question about that bullet.  Swift claims a BC of 0.571, but I am skeptical.  Maybe you can enlighten me. Here is why I am skeptical:

142 gr SMK BC = 0.595.
140 gr Berger Match Target VLD BC = 0.595
140 gr Sierra MatchKing BC = 0.535
130 gr Berger Match Target VLD BC= 0.552
123 gr MatchKing BC = 0.51

I just don't see where a 130 gr hunting bullet would come in with a 0.571 BC.  I am thinking Swift might be a little over optimistic with their claimed BC on a 130 gr bullet.  I guess a good test would be to see how the 130gr Berger and the 130 gr Scirocco would perform at distance and in the wind when loaded to the same velocity. Given the short barrel life for a 6.5-284...I'll let someone else do that test and give me a full report.  ;)

Just an FYI to you 6.5 fans:
Nosler just released a 140 gr 6.5mm Accubond. They are claiming a BC= 0.509 which sounds reasonable. I have some on order from a local shop and he claims they should be in next week...we'll see about that.  I have had good luck with the Accubond in my 30-06, so I can only imagine these should perform at least as well. I ran some calcs on the Zeiss website and the 140 gr Accubonds with a 0.509 BC at 2990 fps should match my hold overs pretty well from 300-800 yds.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 6.5-06 or 280 AI
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2009, 03:04:20 PM »
...
Coyote Hunter-

I too have become quite the fan of the 6.5. I've been working on a 130gr Scirocco load in my 6.5-284 and have had a nagging question about that bullet.  Swift claims a BC of 0.571, but I am skeptical.  Maybe you can enlighten me. Here is why I am skeptical:
...

I just don't see where a 130 gr hunting bullet would come in with a 0.571 BC.  I am thinking Swift might be a little over optimistic with their claimed BC on a 130 gr bullet
...

Here’s another claimed bullet BC to consider:   140 gr JLK VLD, BC .630

Swift may be optimisitic, but it is a secant ogive bullet with a pretty sleek profile.  Time will tell as I’ll be using them and the Bergers.

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Offline Swampman

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Re: 6.5-06 or 280 AI
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2009, 05:04:49 PM »
Quote
The 6.5-06 is in the same class as the .270 Win when it comes to recoil and bullet weights

That's what I've been saying.  There is no magic.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 6.5-06 or 280 AI
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2009, 05:16:35 PM »
Quote
The 6.5-06 is in the same class as the .270 Win when it comes to recoil and bullet weights

That's what I've been saying.  There is no magic.

No magic, just physics.  The 6.5-06AI shoots flatter.

With less recoil.
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Offline hankster76

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Re: 6.5-06 or 280 AI
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2009, 05:06:46 AM »
Thanks so much for all the advise from everbody I have decided to go with the 6.5-06AI my smith has a reamer. ;D ;D

I'll update you on the progress!!

Thanks for great info a even better point counter point discussions

Offline Barstooler

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Re: 6.5-06 or 280 AI
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2009, 03:52:19 PM »
Good luck and good choice.

I shot a 256 Newton for 30 years and finally decided to retire it by building a standard 6.5-06.  You will not do wrong with the AI variant.

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