acceptable accuracy?

[ccoker]

when do you guys stop at for load development for a hunting revolver?
obviously it depends on what you and how you are hunting..

for a hutning  rifle once I get it shooting 1/2" or so groups I stop messing with it...

off a bench rest:

open sights at 25 and 50 yards

red dot at say 50 and 75 yards

scope at say 100 yards

thanks

[teddy12b]

This is a great question!

For the most part I don't think I'm capable of 100 yard shots with a hunting handgun.  I've kept hunting handguns open sighted and felt like 75 yards was pushing my limits to make accurate shots. 

Currently I don't have a hunting handgun, but I'm wanting to fix that.  I'd have to limit myself to 50 - 75 yards depending on the shot and day.  I look at pistol hunting as hunting with a gun at bow ranges.

[Bigeasy]

When I am developing a hunting load for a revolver, I like to see at least 2 1/2 inches at 25 yards with open sights, better with a scope or red dot sight.  My personal standard is what range I can keep all six shots on a paper plate from an imporvised field rest.  Usually about 50 yards with open sights, 100 with a scope / red dot.  I'm talking a .357 or larger, usaually 6 inch or longer tube, single action or large frame double action.

[Doe]

I figured if i can put all six bullet in a paper plate that good enough for me...my target before i go hunting is a full size deer or what ever i'm hunting and in field condition only not on a bench!!

[Badnews Bob]

paper plate at 50 to 75 yards all six holes works for me and my .357 mag but I can usally do 4" at 50 pretty regular. My .357 max I expect to do much better and should with lots of practice be able to hold 6" group at 100 yards.



BTW I am happy with a deer rifle that will shoot inside of 3" at 100 yards, I don't own any that won't do atleast that.

[DanChamberlain]

I have one open sighted revolver that I'd consider a 100 yard sure thing.  It's a Ruger Flattop .44 from about 1958.  It will roll a coffee can 5 of 6 times off hand and the one that misses, doesn't miss by enough to miss the vitals of a deer. 

All my other open sighted revolvers are 75 or less in my hands.  25 yards is my normal shooting distance, and a 2" group will satisfy me, though the aforementioned Flattop will shoot into 1 inch at that range.  4" off hand at 50 will satisfy me with open sights. 

My only scoped big game handgun is a G2 Contender in .375 Winchester, so it will shoot considerably better than I can hold it.  But, at 100 yards I shoot over a cross stick or monopod style rest and while that isn't as steady as a good bench, I can happily shoot into 2" at 100 yards using those methods and 1" off the bench.

Dan

[Lloyd Smale]

4-5 inch at the maximum range your going to use it at.

[Catfish]

I believe that the ability of the shooter has far more to do with the accuracy and the range at which a hunter should limit his shots. I know that there are several of you that are thinking that Dan cannot shoot a revolver well enough to humanely that deer at 100 yrds. While I have never met Dan, from seeing what he is useing for guns I am sure that with alittle practic he should be able to that deer to 150 yrds. with the old Ruger Flat top. My longest shot with my old Ruger was 135 yrds. on a 10 pt. buck quartering away from me on a trot. A the time I took that deer I was shooting an average of 400 rounds a week and my eyes were better than they are now. I still believe that with a couple 100 rounds of practice I could take a deer at that range with a couple of my .44 mags.

[Hank08]

Catfish, it all boils down to what Lloyd said, regardless of how accurate your gun is or how much you've practiced when you can keep all your rnds in 4 to 5" from field positions ,that's it, that's as far as you should shoot game because in the heat of the moment you won't even do that good.
H08

[ccoker]

thanks for the replies
I have been hunting all my life and reloading for the last 5 or so years, most of it rifle..

just trying to guage what is deemed "acceptable accuracy" from more experienced handgun hunters when they are developing loads....


with a new gun I just got and starting load development for it I was curious about how good I can get it and when to call it "good enough"

the previous gun I could get 1" at 75 yards with a 2x6 scope, of course, a red dot isn't doesn't provide as fine of an aiming point as as 6x scope....


I was getting 3" groups with a red dot off a bench at 75 yards and 1" at 25 yards, which I guess makes sense, it would mean 4" at 100
that is plenty accurate to put it in the boiler room on a deer but I would of course like better.. 

and of course, field conditions aren't the range, the range is to see what I can wring out and for practice.

[Doe]

You R right field conditions are not the same as benching a gun..I only work loads off the bench and when she dialed in, I shoot field conditions only and with full size target no rings in my targets. My fave...is a cardbord cut out of a full size deer and shoot away!!

[Hank08]

Take a large cardboard (refrigerator box is good) and a felt tip marker and draw a few lines to make a deer size target without rings.  See if you can put all your shot right around the back of that front leg.
H08

[Lloyd Smale]

if you can get one inch 25 yard and 3 inch 75 yards out of an out of the box production revolver you can put it on the keeper side of the gun safe. In my opinion any of them that can even do consistant 1.5 inch is an exceptional gun. Im not talking a gun that you get on one day when all the stars are aligned to shoot a one inch group. Im talking one that does it all the time.

[bulletstuffer]

If you know you can make the shot, take it.  Practice is the only way to know your distance with any weapon.  If you are unsure about the shot, wait until a better one comes along.  Practice at longer ranges than you expect to shoot so when a shot in range comes along it feels like a chip shot.

I love the idea of the paper or cardboard target by Hank08.  That target will go with me to the range next time I go!  Good luck.

Bulletstuffer

[Barbegris]

1/2" at 100 yards for your hunting rifle and 1 " at 25 yards for your handgun loads is a good place to stop development....
 

[nilescoyote]

I zero for 75 yards on both a contender and bisley, both are scoped, I am not happy until I get below 3"

[H666]

I'm comfortable with a thumbnail on 100 yards with a ruger .243.

[jimkim]

If I could hit a bottle cap at 25yds with the first round that used to be good enough. Now if I can see the bottle cap at 25yds I'm doing good. I really miss my eyes and steady hand from my twenties. If I can hit my mark with the first round and am comfortable with the round, that is good enough for me. It is the first shot that counts.

[SHOOTALL]

I like to shoot index cards , I can hit at different ranges with different handguns . So if i can hit the card out to 50 yards with a gun then i can shoot other things out to 50 yards also. At 100 yards i like the 9in paper plate . In the field ( no bench ) the only handgun that i can put all my shots in the plate at 100 yards all the time is the 454 . Alot of the others i can most of the time but not all the time so on game i restrict my shots to where i know the gun and I can get it done .We have a 500 yard range with a 18 X 18 steel gong. I can always hit it on the 3rd shot and sometimes on the 2nd shot but can't remember hitting it on the first shot out of a cold bbl with a handgun . I think you should not shoot at a critter unless you know you can hit it out of a cold bbl. on the first shot . So if you go to the range and hit most of the time at a certian range it still might not be a range you shoot critters at , back down untill its all the time .

[Redhawk1]

Depending on the handgun I am using, and what I am hunting determines what distance I well shoot my handgun. Also the lighting conditions determine which gun I use. If I am hunting black bear over bait and my shots are under 30 yards, just about any handgun I have will work.

With open sights I like to have at least a 2 to 3 inch group at 25 to 70 yards. With a red-dot I expect the same. Now if I choose one of my scoped long range hand cannons, I expect 2 inch groups at 100 yards.
I try to keep my shooing of handgun under 100 yards. Will I take a longer shot, you bet I would, as long as I know what I am capable of at that distance. I have done a lot of practicing at 150 yards with my Encores.
But 90% of my handgun hunting is done under 50 yards with open sights or a red-dot.

[lastchanc54]

I used to shoot handgun silloutte  with the 44 mag ruger super blackhawk. I had the 7 & 1/2  and later the 10 inch. I learned to expect 4 to 4 &1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. I seldom did any better off the bench or creedmore. Single shot pistols however proved to group better. 2 & 1/2 inches at 50 yards is good for most revolvers. I think most experianced shooters will have found similar results. Luck, Ken

[SHOOTALL]

I shot the same gun as you the 10 SBH ( had 3 ) . but field shooting at game is often times different than shooting on the range at known distances .

[Glanceblamm]

This has been a good read with some good responses and shooting is just plain fun!

I think that a lot of times the gun is up to the task even if the shooter is not...I like to bang the suspended steel plates hung from wire at an honest 50 to 60yds. Sometimes the 3" will come down crooked or slightly sideways and it is something that will catch your shooting eye right now and hitting it can be a sure thing. In short, you are really liking the target and this can make a world of difference.

After a while, you start to throw some speed into the works and the hammer on the S/A seems like it cocks itself upon recoil. You take your friends out for some casual shooting at novelty targets and you are obliterating everything in sight and quickly from 25 to 35yds while they stand there wide eyed. They are getting some hits but more often are missing by 4" to 6". Precision shooting is fun also. Perhaps you know of that shop that has countless 25yd targets taped up on the wall behind the counter with all displaying very tidy groups or at least all shots touching. You may have to work up your load but soon you are doing it also.

I am going to be real honest with you guys. I Never Owned A Centerfire Handgun Until December Of 2003!...I only did this because IL ok'd hanguns for deer the previous year. When this happened the handgun became top priority and I got one quickly. I was not exactly in the dark because I had been shooting (and still do shoot) a H&R model 649 .22 convertible revolver since 75'...I figure that it took me a couple of years and more than 1000rds to learn how to shoot this thing. By 78' or so I was into the black powder and had worked a couple of cap n ball revolvers into the arsenal in the .36 and .44 cal...they were great fun and I shot the heck out of them and purchased another BP but in a single shot w/9" barrel for more precision work ranging from tree rats to even a Coyote or three.

When I got that Brand new Ruger Vaquero in the .45 Colt and took it out to shoot it was like it had been an old friend for years as 20 shots fired at four diff targets ranged from 1.720" to 2.140" (yep-still have those targets and a bunch more) for five shot groups measured from the far outside edges at 25yds offhand on that Bitterly Cold Day. It has three deer to its credit with two more taken with a SBH and six shots fired. Yep, had a miss one year as I pulled the shot low and got a bunch of white hair and a drop of blood out of a two hour search. I think that I even posted (Do you miss sometimes?) here when that happened. I had been used to a very long string of one shot kills with the .50 cal bp rifle and had a couple of handgun deer under my belt and simply could not believe that I had a miss in a hunting situation. That .50 rifle has stayed in the safe (during hunting season) the last five years. I am allowed to take both rifle & handgun if I want but will say that if you want a handgun deer, take a handgun only!

I dont know why I like to ramble on so...In Short, If The Cylinder Throat To The Barrel Diameter Is Correct And There Is No Timing Issue, Chances Are Good That Your Revolver Is Accurate Enough For 100yd Deer.
You have to like to shoot but more importantly, you need to get out and shoot. It is still great fun here.

[Ole Man Dan]

I got into Handgun hunting kind of by accident.  I carried a .44 for snakes, and always told myself that I could use it to finish off a deer.  * I killed a 6pt. while eating soup on the tailgate of my truck.  Rifle was propped on a tree.  He jumped up from honeysuckle vines about 40ft. in front of me.  I did not have my rifle handy.  I was not aware I had drawn untill I heard the gun go off...  Dead Deer.  He ran about 40 yds.
I proved to myself I could do it.  I killed a doe the next wk. with pistol, and then I made the choice after that to leave my rifle at home.  Here in Alabama I hunt in very thick cover and mostly see deer/hoggs inside 50 yds.  I pistol hunt using the same type stand set-ups I use for Bow Hunting.
I shoot Iron sights and think my shots need to be inside about a 4-5" circle.  My normal long range shots are about 75 yds.  Most of my shots are inside 25 yds. at non-spooked animals.  I like WFNGC Cast bullets because they react the same way every shot.  (I've had two failures to expand with a well known factory hollowpoint.  It will never happen to me again again...)

[ccoker]

I should clarify the point I was trying to get to and obviously failed...

being relatively new to handgun hunting and working up loads I was curious as what is realistic to expect for accuracy potential from a handgun and worked up handloads off a bench.

While I am relatively new to handgun hunting I have been hunting with rifles all my life and I won't keep a rifle that can't do better than 1 MOA and I won't be happy unless all shots are touching at hundred yards

I don't want to be chasing my tail so to speak trying to wring out the last bit of accuracy that is beyond what most "good revolvers" are capable of, I didn't know what that was..

yes, I understand that bench and hunting conditions are different..

[SHOOTALL]

then figure out the kill zone of the critter you are hunting , then work up a load that you can keep in the zone under field conditions . Say you hunt deer and feel a 6 inch circle is the kill zone size . from the bench you can hold 2 inch groups or less with it but allow yourself a margin of error as the angle , wind , weather , your physical condition ( just sprinted 100 yards to set up the shot etc.) and murphys law all play into it .
Now if i were working up a load for a new gun i would pick a bullet , then get the loading data from the bullet manf. ( their reloading manual ) . I would look up the bullet and see if there was a "most accurate " load listed and start there . load say 5 at that loading then load 5 at .5 gr. higher and 5 at .5 gr lower then do the same at a grain higher and lower . KEEP IN MIND THOUGH DO NOT EXCEED MAX. LOAD !

if one of these loads did what i wanted then that would be my load . If it did not i would look and see if going up or down improved the accy. and try in that direction . If that failed then i would try a different weight of the same bullet or a different powder maybe . This assumes your reloading is good ( no cut intended as if thing go wrong i always look at how and what i did first ) .

1.5-2 inches at 25 - 50 yards is a good place to start . But the sun , clouds, wind and eyes all play a big part so once i find a good load i try to shoot it in all light and weather conditions . Then there will be less chance of suprise in the field . If you doubt the sun/clouds has effect try to shoot a handgun on a day that the sun is bright with clouds rolling by ever so often . shoot at 100 yards . most shoot higher  when the cloud passes over .

[ccoker]

thanks for all the responses
I got to test some loads with my 6.5" Smith 44 PC
23g of IMR 4227 with 255g Keiths form Leadhead were right at an inch at 25 yards off the bench with the Aimpoint I have on the gun and were easy recoil, should be around 1250-1300FPS
shooting standing at 50 yards I was getting about 4" with some remaining loads from a test load that wasn't as tight at 25 yards
so, will be loading up more and practicing at varying distances
I have been doing a lot of dry fire practice, there's an empty field behind my house
good practice to watch the dot on the target as the trigger breaks and making sure I am squeezing and following through

with a 4MOA dot if I can keep them all in the "red" I should be good out to 100 yards

[Mohawk]

  Standard paper plate with all shots. Most of my hunting is very short distance, 5-15 yards, so I'm not generally too picky. Killed a deer with buckshot in '07 at 6yrds and I don't remember even aquiring the bead.