Author Topic: Too Hot for sabots? BH209 & Knight .45 1:20 SABOTLESS Style!  (Read 1107 times)

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Offline Busta

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After typing up and setting up a report, I lost the whole post in cyberspace.  :'(  I was trying to copy and paste before hitting the submit, but it is forever lost. So this one will be shorter, but I don't know about sweeter. DANG!  >:(

I received the .357" x .45 Sabots Monday that I ordered from Cecil back on the 10th. So, since it was a sweltering 85 degrees Tuesday evening I decided to go out and shoot, using the shade of the barn for a little comfort. I got the bench and chrono set up. I started with some lighter bullets and worked into the ones I wanted information on. This is the shortened version, I shot several more bullets and listed them in the lost post, if you find them please let me know.  ;)

180 gr XTP/MAG
Green MMP
100gr BH209
Rem STS

FPS:
2237
2259
2244


200gr .358" FTX
Orange PR .357" Sabot
120 gr BH209
Rem STS

FPS:
2380
2355
2359

Same but with 125 gr BH209

FPS:
2389
2446
Then this happened, I had shot several others before this, so the barrel was very hot, and these sabots were fried.




After that I let the barrrel cool and ran a couple more bullets through before running out of daylight.

195 gr Barnes ExpanderMZ
Tan MMP (supplied)
120 gr BH209
Win W209

FPS:
2398

Same as above except Harvester Blue CR Sabot.

FPS:
2372


So after that night, I went and cleaned the rifle. I decided to check some bullets to my rifles for the possibility of going SABOTLESS. I had been kicking the idea around, so I figured I would try and give it a whirl. The .45 Disc Elite 1:30 twist has about .001" tighter bore than the .45 Disc 1:20.

The .450" 275 gr Parker and Barnes TMZ both had to be pushed through the Elite, and both fell through the 1:20. I did find 5 candidates for the 1:20 though. They will be listed on the pics.

It was 95 degrees last night, 10 degrees hotter than the previous evening. Back to the shade the barn provided, I set up everything and started shooting. Lighter loads first, as I haven't been down this road before.

It is entirely possible 80 grains may be to light of a load for proper obturation on that light of a bullet, they hit 4" below the POA. I then moved the scope up 4", but increased the load to 100 gr and it hit 4" high. So after adjusting it right back where I started  ::) , I started getting impacts closer to the POA.

I will provide the bullet velocities above each picture, the picture has the load information on it.




FPS:
1683
1692
1716




FPS:
2014
1957
1981



FPS:
1877
1867
1904



FPS:
2063
2048
2070



Notice the bullet impacts on the target, then look at the velocities. I really don't know if it is because the bullet didn't obturate into the rifling? They really loaded the tightest, a perfect ride down on the knurled bands. It could be the twist rat was just too fast for the rear heavy bullet? If anyone has an idea what might be the problem, I would love to hear it.

FPS:
2218
2211
2211



The 250 SST/Shockwave is the only one that would concern me while hunting for the possibility of slipping off the charge. One wrap of white teflon tape before loading would cure that fear.

FPS:
2185
2189
2229



This one really put a smile on my face. I was just loading and shooting, not letting the barrel cool down at all. The barrel was hot enough to fry an egg at this point, then this happened. Yes, all three went through that tiny little oblong hole.   ;D


FPS:
2106
2123
2093


Oh by the way, all loads were shot with .50 caliber lubed felt wads. They started hard, but I didn't have any .45 caliber wads and my .50 cal fiber gasket wads were a no go. If anyone has any .45 caliber Fiber Gasket Wads they would like to get rid of or trade for .50 caliber wads, please let me know. I would trade 100-200+ if anyone is interested.

Sorry this report is pretty lame, but after losing that first one, it broke my spirit a little. :(
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Offline grouse

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Re: Too Hot for sabots? BH209 & Knight .45 1:20 SABOTLESS Style!
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2009, 01:21:58 PM »
It was still very good and detailed. I'm still not convinced on the Sabotless yet. I like the sabot in a Muzzleloader. Atleast when the temps are cool. ;) It's amazing the different velocities achieved from one State to the next.