Trapdoor 45-70 Range Report

[Cornhusker]

I had posted earlier about getting a reproduction target model trapdoor, but decided to get an original 1884 trapdoor.  I purchased one last month and finally took out today!  I have worked up a load in my H&R Buffalo Classic which consists of 60 gr (by volume) of 1 1/2 Fg Swiss black powder, Winchester brass, Federal Magnum primers, a .060" Walters Wad, and a 500 gr RN lead bullet (30:1 Lead/Tin Ratio) from the Lyman 457125 mold with SPG lube.  I crimp the bullet in front of the first band.  This is the load I used today.  I choose to shoot a group at 50 yards just to see how the rifle/load grouped.

I would like to post the picture of the group, but I haven't got the patience to deal with it!  Anyway, the 5 shot group measured 1 7/8"!  The rifle functioned perfectly, ejecting the cartridges with gusto! 

I am extremely excited by this initial performance and am looking forward to getting better groups with some load refinement. 

If anyone else has experience/comments on using BPCR techniques in the trapdoor springfield, please add to this thread!

Thanks,

Husker

[StrawHat]

This book is worth every penny it will cost you if you want to develop a good black powder load.

http://www.the45-70book.com/The-Book-3rd-Edition-by-Spence-Pat-Wolf

[John Boy]

... and am looking forward to getting better groups with some load refinement.

Cornhusker, in an original Trapdoor, might suggest using 65gr of FFg and the 405gr hollow base (HB) bullet.  They obturate nicely in the originals that never were bored with uniform bore and groove dimensions

[Cornhusker]

Thanks for the input StrawHat and John Boy!  I am really excited about this project.  I haven't tried any 405 grain bullets yet.  I can't decide if I want to buy the Lee hollow base mold or the Lyman 457124 mold.  I'll probably end up getting both! 

I have heard a lot of good things about the book StrawHat mentioned.  I'll have to add that one to my gun libary!

Thanks,

Cornhusker

[longcaribiner]

I've done alot of shooting with an 1884 Trapdoor and managed to knock 8 out of ten 500 meter rams with mine. I load the same bullet, but pure lead, sized to 458, (your bore may well be different.) about the ssame powder.  I use an 1/8th inch grease cookie over the powder and load the cartridge to 45-90 OAL.  I don't crimp at all and the last grease groove is exposed.  The chamber in my rifle is such that when I close the breech, the nose of the bullet is pushed forward into the rifling.  Therefore the bullet doesn't have that jump forward into the rilfing.  It is already there.  You should be able to get a similar group at 75 yds easy and perhaps even at 100 yds. 

I don't know which model you have, however, i found that with mine and black powder loads, the first shot from a cold barrel hits about 4 inches high and 5 inches to the left.  The second shot comes down and a bit closer and the thrid even more so.  About the fourth shot, the bore is warmed up and she starts throwing them in the same spot.  If I lose cadence and the bore cools or gets warmer, it goes kaflooey again.  I use cheese wax for lube, you know that red wax from Gouda or Edam cheese, mixed 60 -40 with beeswax.  I also swab between shots and use WW2 GI bore cleaner to swab the bore.  Fouling stays especially slick.   

[Cornhusker]

Eight Rams is outstanding in my opinion!  Wow, I hope to  get that profecient with my 1884 trapdoor.  I am intrigued with your practice of not crimping.  I have to be careful with my BP charges and where I seat the bullet.  I loaded four rounds the other day and they wouldn't chamber due to the fact I had deformed the nose of the bullets.  I had to pull the bullets and decrease the seating depth.  If I was to seat them out further and not crimp, there would be a less chance of that happening! 

I also experienced the cold barrel effect.  My first round is low and left of the main group, the second closer, and the 3rd-5th rounds will be touching.    Having a good shot cadence is important with my rifle as well. 

As far as swabbing the barrel, I would like some input on this.  I haven't been cleaning my bore until after the fifth round.  Should I be doing it every round as in longcaribiner's practice?  I definitely can't go past 5 rounds as accuracy suffers.

Thanks Again,

Husker

[longcaribiner]

Perhaps I should calrify one small thing.  The reason my bullets are loaded to 45-90  OAL, is that I use an old IDeal nutcracker tool that was made to load 45-90's.  I figured the 45-70 with that big bullet is about the same length.  When I first loaded 45-70's I used a Lee Loader and pushing the slugs down through that sizer/seater gizmo would really mushroom the noses of the bullets.  So much so, that one match I attended, I couldn't close the breech for any of the cartridges.  So I took out my knife and cut the noses off ten cartridges and shot the 100 yd offhand match with lop sided wad cutters.  Still came in 3rd. 

[kiddekop]

is anyone taking any 1300+ yard shots?

[Cornhusker]

I haven't taken any that far with my trapdoor, yet!  I do hope to compete in a 1000 yd buffalo gong shoot next summer.  If anyone has input on using the buffington sight at 1000+ yds, I'd like to see it!

Husker

[bilmac]

Their used to be a shoot in Alliance Ne called the Doc and the Judge match, and one of the shoots was just for trap doors. They also had other matches for old timey guns.  Don't know if they are still doing it, but nothing ever changes much in Nebr.