Author Topic: Red Dots on rifles ? (Read 1997 times)

Country Boy · « **on:** April 14, 2009, 03:43:41 AM »

How do you put a red dot on a rifle that has two piece bases. How far can you shoot accurately with one ? I was looking at a Trueglo 2x30 with a 2.5 moa. I want to put it on my blr81 and on my winchester 100 Thanks

Bigeasy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 14, 2009, 04:39:54 AM »

Most of them mount with either one or two rings, usually with a weaver/pictatiiny type base (interchangeable) I use red dot / holographic sights on several rifles and hanguns. They are excellent close range sights, much quicker, more accurate, and clearer out at the normal ranges you would use iron sights. You are smart to stay with the smaller moa dot size for hunting use. The big 8 moa dots are designed for handgun speed shooting, and lack precision for rifle use. I have a Bushnell Fastfire ll holographic sight mounted on my m-4 Bushmaster. It has a 4 moa dot. At 2oo yards, I place the dot on a 12 inch metal gong, and hit with boring regularity.

Larry

BBF · « **Reply #2 on:** April 14, 2009, 05:22:08 AM »

Bigeasy:
That isn't one of those $ 35 plus or minus types you are writing about is it?

Bigeasy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:08:49 AM »

My mistake.........I Typed Bushnell, I meant Burris. The Fastfire ll is a small holographic red dot optic, waterproof, costs about $210, depending on mount. I have several Aimpoint red dots, which are high quality, cost about $400. I do have an Ultra Dot mounted on a 4 inch Smith #29 that has stood up to a lot of full power loads, no problems. They are about $125, I believe. Mine was purchased about 15 years ago.

Mt_Sourdough · « **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:18:08 AM »

This is kinda funny, because I was asking the same question on the optics forum.
  I was originally resigned to the idea that for me to be satisfied with the sights on my 444, then I would need to install a scope with all its unwanted weight and bulkiness. Then I started thinking about these red dots when I was at the range last week. I have yet to have anybody tell me any negatives about their application to leveraction rifles. Leveractions are generally meant for fast shooting at shorter ranges. If you have good eyesite like I do, then you dont really need a scope to shoot within the ranges of these rifles. At 100 yards, the front bead on stock sights seems to be about 10 moa. That means a 4 moa dot ( the dot size with the Burris Fastfire II) is a signicant improvement over stock sights. Battery life is measured in terms of years rather than hours, which was another concearn of mine. The Burris fast fire is very compact little 2 oz unit and has mounts specific for its application to Model 94 or Marlin leveraction rifles.
  The stock sights on my 444 are crappy as far as fine adjustment and maintaining that exact point of impact. I am thinking that the red dot will be a solution to that problem as well.
  The Burris unit is around $200 and the mount is around $45. So, it is about the same cost as a burris Fullfield scope with mounts and rings.
  I hope to order mine very soon.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #5 on:** April 14, 2009, 09:02:37 AM »

I have one of the TruGlo's on my 444 Marlin Handi and have had no problems with it. Very fast to target and much better for these old eyes than open sights. DP

PartsMan · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2009, 10:01:09 AM »

I don't have one but have thought about it.
Even if it has a bigger dot you can sight it in for the middle or top of the dot and hit smaller targets than the dot.

Dee · « **Reply #7 on:** April 14, 2009, 10:43:12 AM »

Gosh, I guess the apertures that are on my three (a Model 94 3030 for about 40 years now) are outdated and inferior. But, then again the batteries don't run down. What did we ever do without batteries?

Country Boy · « **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2009, 11:31:16 AM »

I forgot you can shoot off the top of the dot for finer aiming !

Bigeasy · « **Reply #9 on:** April 14, 2009, 01:20:57 PM »

Quote from: Dee on April 14, 2009, 10:43:12 AM

Gosh, I guess the apertures that are on my three (a Model 94 3030 for about 40 years now) are outdated and inferior. But, then again the batteries don't run down. What did we ever do without batteries?

Dee-

We sat around the camp fire and talked about the ones we missed.....LOL

Larry

Dee · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2009, 01:25:11 PM »

Not me Bigeasy. When we sat around the campfire we LIED?

Mt_Sourdough · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2009, 01:39:07 PM »

imho, a red dot sight doesnt radically alter a persons ability to lie

, but it might just reduce the number of good excuses. $:-\$

Dee · « **Reply #12 on:** April 15, 2009, 12:21:47 AM »

That's funny Mt_Sourdough. I haven't gone the way of the battery yet. I still shoot apertures, and one or two scopes. I have always tended to think missed shots were more about either poor marksmanship, poor judgment, or bad timing than sights. Maybe all three.
Good sights are important no doubt, but some new types of sights create dependencies no doubt, and are not a replacement for marksmanship. Not saying anyone here has done that either, but in over fifty years of hunting, I haven't missed that much as I became more disciplined, and 99% of the time, it wasn't the rifle or the sight system that caused me to miss. It was me!
Some of these new systems will fail if the battery goes down, and I just haven't stepped into that arena yet. May not. I like the trijicon night sights on pistols though. Other than those, I still trust my instincts and abilities.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** April 15, 2009, 01:36:25 AM »

i put them on battle guns but never have on hunting guns. Aimpoint does make a longer tubed uint that works with conventional rings though. I guess im just to old school to put one on a bolt or lever gun. to me a lever gun should use either open sights or an apature.

Mt_Sourdough · « **Reply #14 on:** April 15, 2009, 05:30:32 AM »

I have had much success with open sights. I grew up with a 30-30 rockin the stock open sights. I used open sights on my m-16 in the army. I got pretty good with that.
I purchased my 444 last year and over the last season it fired at game three times with three kills. Bang flops. Longest shot was at 94 yards. Since hunting season, I go to the range when I can and run a half a box or sometimes a box of rounds through my 444. As I do, I become increasingly dissatisfied with the stock sights. I deeply pondered the thought of throwing a scope on it. Just couldt get along with the idea of adding that bulk and weight as well as having to look for my quarry down a long tube.
Ok, I have to admit I might be a victim of good marketing, but I saw an ad pic of a fastfire on a marlin 336 of some sort. Anyways, a light went on and I thought this could be exactly what I am looking for. ( SUCKER

) I have since gone around and looked through a couple variations of red dots that are in local stores. I have liked what I saw.
Now I know that elictrical appliances seem to to be contra to the spirit of a leveraction, but then again so are rubber tipped bullets. I like those thing too.

BBF · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2009, 08:22:12 AM »

Thought so, the holo's are are different breed then those crap Ret Dot's. I got on from BSA and it is pure junk.

Mt_Sourdough · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2009, 02:32:41 PM »

I may be wrong, but I believe that the halographic sights put the dot where the rifle is aiming despite your eye alignment with sight. With the regular red dots, the red dot and point of impact are dependent on your eye alignmet with sight.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** April 16, 2009, 12:17:48 AM »

not really. Put a dot from an aimpoint on target and it hits. doesnt matter if your eyes are lined up or not.

BBF · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2009, 03:13:14 AM »

Re Post# 16. Right on, that is why I called the BSA "Crap" You move your head and the Dot is all over the place.

Re Post # 17. You are correct. Aimpoint is a different and much more expensive item.

randall · « **Reply #19 on:** April 18, 2009, 03:24:05 PM »

Does anyone make a WEAVER scope base for the Winchester 94 or 86 or 92? I believe you could remove the rear sight and utilize the barrel dovetail. The aimpoints are not subject to a set distance from your eyeball... so they shpuld not be limited in that respect. And being a "zero power" prove to be useful for those who choose to use both their eyes while shooting!!

I would love to have one on my old 71.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2009, 07:00:08 AM »

Here is a FastFire red dot holograph sight I have mounted on the top scope ring of a M-4 rifle/ Burris 2x7 scope combo. No reason such a combo wouldnt work on a bolt action hunting rifle with a scope mounted... Long range percision, and close range speed.

Larry