Author Topic: Why do Browning semi autos shoot betterthan Remington Semi autos (Read 2223 times)

Country Boy · « **on:** February 22, 2009, 06:00:02 AM »

It's a fact, I've seen it first hand . Browning Semi Autos shoot better than ANY Remington Semi auto. Why ? I like the styling on the Rem. but dog gone it across the board the Brownings shoot tighter groups with less fuss.(factory loads) Can't figure it out !

rickt300 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:32:32 AM »

Could it be that the higher cost of the Brownings relates into quality? Years ago I had a fancy Browning semi auto in 30-06. It shot fine but it was a heavy poor handling rifle that I had to baby around to protect it's fine finish. I have owned at least 6 Remington semi autos from the 740 to the 7400. All either shot better than 1 1/2 inches when I got them or with a little forearm tweaking. My present 7400, after some fooling around with loads will put 3 shots into just over an inch. This is good enough for sparrows at 100 yards. Being a 30-06 I tend to use it on bigger stuff though.

BBF · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2009, 09:37:57 AM »

I had a BAR II years ago that shot very well but it was clumsy so I traded it off.
I now have a 742 that shoots just about as well, handles nice and I don't worry about getting it wet or putting another scratch on it.

Lone Star · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2009, 11:22:42 AM »

Quote

It's a fact, I've seen it first hand...Can't figure it out !

It is not a fact. First off, with that silly statement you are assuming that you have seen all possible Remington and Browning rifles shot under the same conditions by the same shooters. I assure you - you have not. Your sample size is so small it is meaningless. As seen from the above posts, others have somewhat different experiences. Me, I'd have to ask: for the extra cost, why don't Brownings shoot a lot better than Remingtons?

.

30-30man · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2009, 11:42:43 AM »

I can tell you from my experiences that I have never owned a Remington semi-auto rifle in any caliber that I liked. Most of them have been disapointments. I've owned a 742, 7400, Viper, 597 and I had problems with all of them. I can't say that for any other make. I think remington should stick with what it does well. They make one of the finest bolt actions around and make a good pump/semi shotgun. They need to give up on all the rest. I don't know why remington can stick with one design and perfect it like the others have. Browning's BAR has not really changed much in function for many years, but Remington has had four models of the semi-auto centerfire that I know of.

Country Boy · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2009, 02:14:48 PM »

Lone Star stick it. Don"t ever question ,my verasity. I help sight in 100's of rifles at the range every year before deer season. The Remingtons are the worst to get to group if you call it that. Same statement from rangemasters from other clubs around the state. You have not shot enought to know the difference or understand the question.

rickt300 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2009, 05:26:12 AM »

No no can dought that we have different experiences. Some people hate Remingtons and thats that, they won't shoot them well no matter what. I have found the Remington semi auto to be an easily tunable rifle as to trigger pull and forearm fitting. The gas system is easy to clean as is the action. They are a bit picky as to what ammo they will cycle reliably with but I had no trouble wiith Ballistic tip reloads or Remington PSPCL factory ammo.

Country Boy · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2009, 05:38:35 AM »

A voice of reason. Thank you Rick. I actually like the way the Rem. feels but I can"t seem to get one to shoot very good neither do guys at the range. I like my BAr's but they are heavy , clunky. They do shoot good through. If I could get a remingtion that shot as well, thats what I would be packing. Bought a new Rem. 750 last summer and had all kinds of problems, forend split and wouldn"t shoot better than 3" with any ammo. I sold the Remington bought a Browning short track but haven"t shot it yet too cold for an old timer like me to get outside.

rickt300 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:36:34 AM »

On all the Reminton autos I have owned the trigger pull was the biggest detriment to accuracy. I Cut a 1/2 coil off the sear return spring till I got something I could work with. This spring is right above the trigger and a little in front of it. Don't go too far with the spring. A very slight polishing of the hammer notch fixed the trigger very nicely. An O-ring from a faucet washer kit between the forearm and the gas block where the bolt goes thru keeps the forearm from putting any pressure against the reciever, not exactly free floating but an great improvement and it also helps keep the forearm bolt from coming loose. Tighten the forearm bolt and hold the forearm so it doesn't touch the barrel on either side and your set. This is all easy and cost almost nothing. On my rifle I cut 1 1/2 coils off the trigger spring and got a 4# trigger pull but before this it was around 10#.

rickt300 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:49:26 AM »

Maybe I ought to add this. I have been putting rifles together and tinkering with them for more than 30 years. If you have no experience doing this sort of thing I suggest taking it to a good gunsmith. That said gunsmith talent varies so greatly, I mean you have kindegarton gunsmiths and college level gunsmiths, good luck on what you find.

targshooter · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2009, 01:00:16 PM »

I own both a Remington Model 7400 Carbine and a Browning BAR LW Stalker. I bought both models for their features of lightness and factory installed iron sights. Both are about equally accurate. The BAR will get a quite warm barrel (20 shots) and still not walk the shots at 200 yards whereas the Remington walks the POI after about 8-10 shots. This matters not a whit for hunting. For me, the BAR handles much better for iron sight shooting. With scopes both rifles are about the same in their ability to point quickly and track a moving target. For hunting it is six of one and half a dozen of the other in my book. It is in quality that the BAR wins hands down. As the BAR costs about $250 more than the Remington in my neck of the woods, one must decide if the following comparison matters. The rear sight that came with the Remmy self destructed (pot metal with steel screws that tighten for windage) via its design by stripping its threads. I purchased a NECG peep that fits on the Weaver scope mount base that suffices as a BUIS if the scope craps out; cost was $90 shipped. The BAR factory BUIS is an excellent sight, one of the best offered currently IMO, with positive adjustments and a true sight adjustment capability. The trigger on the BAR is better, and its housing is of much better quality than the Remmy's. The trigger is good enough in the BAR that 300M offhand shooting can be done, something not effectively possible with the Remmy trigger. The BAR trigger is not on a par with the better factory bolt actions rifles though.
The BAR magazine and bolt release mechanism are much better than the Remington design (bolt hold open in the mag) and quality. I have had the experience of factory new Remmy magazines that do not work as advertised. As the BAR mag is almost twice as much, this feature is certainly paid for. I also like the bolt release mechanism of the BAR being a rifle based device and not a magazine based device.
The Remmy has a bolt cover that is plastic and cracks. The BAR cover is metal and part of the bolt carrier, no cracks here.
I do not like either rifle's fore stock securement mechanism. However, the Remmy is either frozen in place (as the present one came from the factory) or its shoots loose easily (as with my past two Remmy semi's). The BAR securement screw (which oddly/stupidly serves as the sling swivel attachment) does not shoot loose.
Rifle field stripping gives the BAR another win over the Remington. The BAR mechanism being much easier to strip to basic components and the gas mechanism itself being far more accessible for proper cleaning.
Thus, in a cost per feature comparison, the BAR is worth the cost difference of about $250. I would take the BAR on a remote (backpack in, live in a tent) hunt, I would not take the Remington. In reality, I would take a bolt action Ruger 77 with BUIS on the remote hunts.
Overall, I feel the casual deer hunter is probably served well by either the Remington or BAR. A remote hunter or someone considering a semi-auto hunting style rifle as a survival weapon would be better served by the BAR.

30-30man · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2009, 03:02:05 PM »

I wanted to love Remington semi-autos but their quality control has been very spotty since they started in that business. There are good ones and then there are the turds. It just seems like all I bought were the turds. I've just had better luck with other makes. With competition and in our current struggling times, Remington had better focus more on quality control if they plan to stay in business. There is only so long a company can ride on past greatness. Eventually they will fall if quality is not improved upon. I just hope that their shoddy quality control doesn't trickle into Marlin/H&R in order to save money on production. I'd be willing to spend more money equal to or above a Browning for a truly American made gun. I just wish Remington would realize that and quit trying to sell cheap guns that are not what they are capable of producing. Everybody remembers what Remington use to be.

rickt300 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2009, 05:03:17 AM »

I guess I should also add I have never owned a Remington rifle made after 1987. Most of my bolt rifles are built on Mauser or Springfield actions tho I do own a 1971 model 700 BDL. And yes if I had to go into a unsupported survival role for any amount of time my rifle would be a bolt action. I never liked Remington's rear sight design and have several in my gun junk box. If you make sure the forearm is not bearing on the reciever you will notice that your group does not start to vertically string. As to magazines I have not had problems with any of them yet but they look to be easily adjusted or replaced. It is possible that someone like me can keep just about any rifle shooting with little effort and others with a different skill level would have trouble.

Ahshucks · « **Reply #13 on:** March 15, 2009, 02:55:18 PM »

Correct me if I am wrong, Brownings come bedded and Remingtons do not. I have a number of remmys, but I do enjoy my accurate BLR

S.S. · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2009, 04:07:25 PM »

I have found that just the opposite is true? The only two brownings
I have kept over the years is a Buckmark .22 handgun and a 9mm Hi-Power.
I have never held a browning rifle that felt right to me. I have Milsurps
that are easily just as accurate or more so.

fknipfer · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2009, 04:04:19 AM »

$$$$$$$$.

fknipfer

32WINSPL · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2009, 03:11:53 PM »

Fact: My recent experience with a Remington 750.

Purchased a Remington 750 Carbine, chambered in .308 Winchester. The rifle was as new. I took it to the range with newly purchased Super X 150 gr. & 180 gr. Power Point ammunition to shoot. I mounted a scope and proceeded to sight in a 25 yards using the 150 gr. cartridges and shot single shots only. I did not load the magazine during this sight in process. After 3 shots, allowing 5 minutes between shots, I loaded 4 rounds into magazine, placed the magazine into the rifle firmly until it was secured into position. I then loaded a round by operating the cocking handle. I then shot a round and observed that the next round had not loaded properly. The bolt was riding over the cartridge and came to rest approximately 1/2 way from fully closed. I cleared the jam, reloaded manually and shot; result the same. I repeated this 5 times and had a jam or failure to feed every time. I moved off to the 100 yard range and loaded up with the 180 gr. cartridges and had the same disappointing results. The rifle simply will not feed from the magazine.
I spoke to a trusted local dealer and was told that they no longer sell this rifle as they had too many returns. He offered to widen the gas orifices and do some polishing and said that that should remedy the problem. I declined and have dumped the rifle. I should not have to modify a mint condition, newly designed & manufactured firearm so that it can function as designed. I am disappointed but sadly not surprised. They don't call them jam-o-matics for nothing I have learned
I have a 1989 Browning BAR Mk1, chambered in 30-06 Springfield and it hasn't failed to feed yet.

Thank you very much.

Bruce.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2009, 04:59:10 PM »

Quote from: Country Boy on February 22, 2009, 06:00:02 AM

It's a fact, I've seen it first hand . Browning Semi Autos shoot better than ANY Remington Semi auto. Why ? I like the styling on the Rem. but dog gone it across the board the Brownings shoot tighter groups with less fuss.(factory loads) Can't figure it out !

Japanese quality!

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2009, 06:17:43 PM »

I have a Rem 742 in 30.06 bought around 1978 I think, it shoots 3-5 shot groups around 1 inch to 11/4 inch after that barrel heats up and starts to string them out high right.

Under hunting conditions makes no difference what so ever. That rifle has never not once given me any problems and it started its career in the swamps and piney woods of East Texas and Southwestern Louisiana. It now hunts in the mountains of Colorado and has functioned flawlessly down to 30 below zero ( killed my first elk on Wolf Creek Pass and had a large temp gauge hanging on the skinning tree. That rifle killed ever animal shot with it most with 1 round some with 2 and a couple with 3 rounds. I know should have been able to plug them all running or not with 1 round however I am just an old east texas boy without much education but i sure do love to hunt.

I have shot BAR in .338 many, many times and it performed very well and was accurate but I really could not see any difference in overall accuracy. I would bet that most were not much more accurate that the 742 ( NOW I DO KNOW THAT TARGET SHOOTERS THINK A 1/4 inch is a half mile and 1/2 inch is farther than a mile) . However I am a hunter that does shoot target to check out my rifle and loads and the animals do not know the difference of even several inches. It does not matter in hunting conditions most men including myself can not hold a rifle off hand under hunting conditions as acccurate as it will shoot.

I have shot thousands upon thousands of rds in most calibers up to .375 H&H most were bolt guns.. and I would not recommend any semi auto to anyone that hunts in cold climates as the question of function will rear its head..that is if not properly lubed. Most guys will not take the time to remove excess oil ( almost if not all) so as to insure function under those conditions. The other key is operating pressures of the loads used..stick with factory rounds and you will more than likely never have a problem. However, if you reload as I do the same laws apply as to the M1 Garand..keep the pressures right and use the proper burning rate of powder to cycle the action at the proper speed range and you will have no problems.

Most 742 rifles that I have been asked to look at had started malfunctioning with handloads that were near max pressures with fast burning powders that bent things and kept the cycle of the action too fast to function and feed reliably. Others had loaded bullets to far out to feed reliably through the box magazines.Those that had no actual damage were put back into service with proper loads.

The 742 in my opinion was a very good rifle however most guys wanting to pump things up loaded too hot for the actions causing damage and then blaming the rifle. They wanted to match the bolt actions in speed and downrange energy and all along there was no need to the gun was accurate and the elk or deer or whatever really do not know the difference in a 100 200 fps. Hunters usualy have no rest that the target shooter has and his adrenilan heaving chest and racing heart usualy have him shooting quite big groups to say the least.

just my 2 cents

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2009, 06:24:45 PM »

ooops almost forgot...full length resize with the small base dies and you will always go to battery just full length resize is just not enought with any semi auto as dirty brass or the slight swell at the base of a reload with be just enough to keep the action from locking up especialy in the cold.

So I say resize with a small base die to put it bach to factory specs..the same as you get a the store and your semi auto rifle will function as designed. That is one of the basic Garand Rules..yes I know many do not and they shoot all the time...at the bench or in warm weather..so for reliability in all conditions do it..