Author Topic: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?  (Read 2893 times)

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Offline Freezer

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Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« on: March 15, 2009, 01:43:54 AM »
   I have a few projects going all the time.  I've been using the Brownells Dicropan system and though it's time consuming it works.  What system do you tried and with what results.  I've tried a couple cold blue products but I wasn't happy with them. 

Offline GRIMJIM

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2009, 05:04:48 AM »
Most of the things I have read about rust blueing indicated most if not everyone sends them out to be blued. Everything in the near vacinity will rust so you have to have it outside in a seperate location. Plus the cost of equipment and materials make it not very profitable unless you do volume.

I am intereated in hearing the responses here also.
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2009, 08:06:53 AM »
Easiest gun finish is parkerizing, it's tough, nice looking and dead easy to do.  The chemicals are easy to get, cheap and it is not fickle about how it is done.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline charles p

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2009, 01:47:21 PM »
Once had a friend in the black oxide business.  He did high volumes of hand tool parts for a hand tool manufacturer.  He probably coated enough drill chucks, hoes, and shovels for everybody in the US to have 25 of each.  Always thought about running my Rem 1100 through the tanks to see what happened. 

Offline dud

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2009, 02:38:03 PM »
i rust blue my guns very easy to do and cheap.might cost 25.00 per gun. but there is a lot of time labor involved.you need a boiling tank ,soft wire brushes,rubber gloves.some iron wire,rusting agent,water.

Offline Freezer

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2009, 03:04:24 PM »
Dud, I'm interested tell me more.  I always thought a Stevens double would look great browned.  I just blued a 16 guage barrel and I'm prepareing the reciever.  I've ordered some tune up springs for it and will slick up the internal parts a little. I've heard you can rust brown metal with a wooden box and light bulb but didn't have the guts to build it.  I had reservations about rusting the inside of the barrel.

Offline mattl

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2009, 07:22:15 PM »
I would suggest you get the AGI videos on hot caustic blueing ($120) and/or the one on rust and nitride blueing ($65) through Midwayusa to find out if you would be interested in geting setup to do it.  Not only do you need to blue, you would also need to prep the metal by polishing it to the achieve the desired finish, Parkerizing requires bead blasting the parts for it to work. 

You can go to Du-Lite's web site (www.du-lite.com) to get the setup, maintanance and blueing instructions, but they may be a bit confusing for the person who has never blued before.  I never understood them until I went to school for it and shown how it is done. 

Mattl

Offline mattl

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2009, 07:27:23 PM »
Freezer,

Cold blue is for small touch up jobs to a firearms finish.  They should not be used to blue an entire area.  They are great for small scratches and dings.

Offline Freezer

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 02:50:12 AM »
    Agreed with the cold blue systems.  Dicropan is sold by Brownells and is a hot water cure bluing system.  It can be done inside your house with one stainless steel tank or a four tank system.  I have four tanks, two stainless and two made of plastic rain gutter.  The hot blue systems are toxic and should be done outside or in a building with a good ventalation sysetm.  For a hobiest like me The ste uop cost is too much.  The metal blues best when hand buffed with 440 grit paper but I've heard of others going further and adding some of the bluing solution to the boiling tank.  Like all bluing systems the metal has to be absolutly oil free and you must folow the direction.  I've done half a dozen guns with it so far with good results.  The only one I was completely hapy with was a reciever on my Rem 1100.  It didn't come out dark enough.  This system is good for SXS shotguns because it doesn't effect the solder between the barrels.
    I've been looking into browning.  I think a Stevens SXS would look great browned. 
    This post was to find out what other systems are out there.

Offline Cornbelt

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2009, 01:30:28 PM »
Mark Lee express blue from Brownells' is a good rust blue and a whole lot easier than Dichropan IM. Each coat makes it darker and you quit when you're satisfied. Used it on an older mod 24 savage with soft solder. Receiver was oxide blued, and the bbls matched the shade of the rec.

Offline Freezer

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2009, 05:45:10 AM »
    Since I started this post I've done two guns with the Dicropan System, a Rem 1100 and a Stevens 311 SXS.  The barrels are great but the recievers just don't look as good as I'd like, they're not deep enough.  I'm not interested in Wonder Blue, it looks good but no thanks.  Shooters Solution and Brownells Oxolate look good but you have to buy 40lbs almost $150's worth. I don't need that much.  I have two stainless steel tanks and two plastic.  Burners are easy to make for a costic system and I'd work outside instead of on the stove like I do now.  Mark Lee Express Blue looks interesting and similar to Dicropan.  How does it perform?  Where can I get smaller amounts of the hot blue chemicals.

Offline vincewarde

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Hot Cold Blue
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2009, 07:23:29 PM »
I have done more than one gun using the best cold blue I can get.  Avoid the cheaper cold blue.  I clean/polish/degrease the metal and then use a heat gun to get the metal very warm  (I have also used a hair dryer).  I apply the "cold blue" generously.  I use fine steel wool between coats and apply several coats.  When I have a good deep blue, I oil the gun and it looks even better.

I have done several complete guns this way and they came out great.  I would not hesitate to do another one.
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Offline Halwg

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2009, 08:33:21 AM »
I have done exactly the same thing as vince, and it came out very well.
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Offline troy5775

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2009, 04:52:08 PM »
http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/sport/index.html

I recently got a bottle of the super blue and it seems too work better than the perma blue, especially on receivers.

I would like to know more on parkerizing myself,

Offline ironglowjr

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2009, 03:03:19 AM »
i reblue my own guns, and i enjoy it . the 1st thing in rebluing a rifle/handgun is the syle of finish you wat then you MUST have an awsome prep , wear gloves and make sure no oil gets on to the gun or it will ruin your job and it will be spotty. Then also i would start with a cold blue metod then work up to nitre then hot caustic salts........good luck

Offline 7 MM

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2009, 05:00:59 AM »
Go to surplusrifle.com and look in their gunsmithing section for a sticky by popeye.
I have used it several times and it works very well.
Well enough that my gunsmith made a copy and uses it himself.


7 MM

Offline kix

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2009, 04:08:41 PM »
   Freezer   Try this. Get some 44/40 Blue from say Brownell's or someone else. If you can heat up the parts in an oven all the better but it will still work. Apply the 44/40 by finger until it dries,wash off and apply again. Tonite I reblued a 99 Savage and the end result was beautiful. As simple as it sounds,just make sure you get rid of gun oil with some common rubbing alcohol. And then,watch your work with diligence just to make sure your gun is not going to rust.   Kix

Offline Pvt.Joker

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2009, 06:59:46 PM »
Or IF you really want to try doing it yourself, here's a link to one guy's page on home bluing.  I haven't done it myself so I can't personally attest to the results, but the information is out there...

http://www.blindhogg.com/homemadesalts.html

Offline Tommyt

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2009, 05:32:55 AM »
I didn't read the entire art' but I think this is the one from Popeye but he say's he found this info it else where

Adventures in bluing!

Well, now is about the time you think about bluing the rifle. As most of us have learned, the .303 Indian Re-works have been pretty neglected by their former owners, and although they have pretty nice actions and shiny bores with strong rifling, the outside is a mess. Most people start with the stock furniture. Either they cook the cosmo out of the stock or strip it with furniture stripper, EZ-Off, Brake Cleaner or use the diswasher method. When you're done, some people stain the furniture, especially if you used a method that removed EVERYTHING from the wood like the dishwasher, or, if you prefer the natural look, you sand and steel wool the furniture and add some wood treatment.... either in the form of a nice furniture oil, Tung oil or Boiled Linseed Oil.

So now your stock is looking pretty good, and feeling pretty spunky for doing it all yourself.....but after a while you begin to see that all that nice furniture only emphasizes how awful the gunmetal looks. Time to do something about that, you say to yourself.....but which way to go with this?

Well, like we said, if it's an Ishy-screwed, Indian Paint-job, it's in sad shape.

Fist step before you do anything is to get the metal clean....I mean REALLY clean.

This will, of course require you to disassemble the gun again and place the metal into some solvent to eat off all the accumulated crud of years of neglect. Brake cleaner works well, but some prefer mineral spirits. I found a trough at a home improvement store that is used for wall-papering and it was just the size and shape I wanted. Another guy told me that he MADE a trough out of gutter channel and 2 end-caps.

Soaking the parts will take off all the remaining paint, oil, grease, dirt, Tunisian sand, camel dung and mud from the sub-continent or any place else this rifle has seen action (if they could only talk!).

Soaking it for a day or so should suffice. I aquired some steel and brass wire brushes at a hardware store, and these can be used to scrub off anything else that was left on. Other tools like screwdrivers, Exacto knives and paint scrapers can be used to dig out some of the more stubborn crud in the little crevices. Steel wool can also be used on some tough areas. During this step you'll find more of the makers marks, broad arrows, inspection stamps and various dings that collectors love to brag about.

Choosing a bluing agent is the next step. Most gun bluing is cold bluing, since factory bluing requires a lot of material and hazardous chemicals that will be both expensive and potentially toxic. Cold bluing uses commercially available liquid bluing agents that will oxidize the metal for a nice dark color. Bluing is, as I'm sure that you are all aware, is just another form of corrosion, but a good kind that prevents the destructive kind that we call 'rust'.

I've used a few different products but I tend to favor either Birchwood Casey's Super Blue (BCSB) or OxphoBlue (OB). BCSB gives you a nice dark black-blue and this looks good and lasts. OB will give you more of a gun-metal blue that some people prefer. I recommend the 'liquid' OB because the 'gel' form applies like SNOT and sticks to everything and just makes a mess.

I usually start with something simple. A good place to start is the ammunition magazine. It is sort of self-contained and ammenable to a small project. It helps to get used to the bluing process before you tackle the whole gun, and it's something you can do while the rest of the gun is soaking.

Once you get the magazine totally clean, you have to get it totally grease-free. Denatured alcohol is a great degreaser. You can buy this in bulk in any hardware store. It also helps to get the metal parts 'hot' before you start. It's called COLD bluing but it works better if the parts are kind of warm. I boiled some water and plopped the degreased magazine into the bowl of boiling water. I fished it out with a pair of tongs about a minute later and put it on a towel. The boiling water evaporated off of the hot metal in no time, so now it was clean, degreased, totally dry and very warm. I used some BCSB on a rag and applied it directly to the warm metal. It blued immediately and became pretty dark.

Once I applied it to the whole surface and rubbed it in all over, I went on to the next step which is the detergent bath. This step is important in my opinion, because it really helps the bluing bond to the metal. I had another bowl with warm water mixed with laundry detergent and plopped the magazine into it. The high phosphate content of the detergent helped the bluing take hold. I swished it around and rubbed the magazine and watched it get more blue.

Then I took it out and rinsed it in warm tap water. After I dried the magazine it was pretty blue, but kind of streaky. I next used 0000 steel wool and lightly scrubbed the magazine. This step got rid of the streaks and made the blue pretty homogenous.

I dropped the magazine into boiling water again and then fished it out with tongs and let it dry. The next step was a repeat of everything listed above: Apply blue, soak in detergent, rinse in tap water and dry, steel wool, boiling water and air dry.

I usually repeat this process at least 3 times for a good bluing. Once you acheive the level of blue that you want, you can halt the bluing process by applying gunoil.

I have used OB liquid the same way with similar results, except that the blue comes out much more 'gunmetal blue' than 'black'.

Incidentally, you can use the bluing agents on the metal forend handguard metal areas as well. The brass rivets shine up nice with a little scrubbing from a rag and they make a nice contrast to the dark wood grain and the blued gunmetal.

All this can be done to the other metal parts. Pretty soon, the gunmetal gets all blued and nice looking, and when you reassemble it, it looks like something you should have paid a LOT more money for.

Once you complete your rifle, you'll notice something has changed. The change will be in YOU. You'll actually walk around insufferably smug for several days and offer to show people pictures of your new 'baby' to bewildered colleagues.....1 or 2 of which you may actually get interested in MilSurps!

Finish this job well, and you will be proud to hang this up in your home..... and you will never fear another Milsurp project again....either stock re-finishing or re-bluing metal. If you can do and Indian Re-work Enfield....you can do anything.....

And pretty soon, you'll get another gun to fix up that only a few months ago, you would have thought was WAY out of your league.....but don't be surprised is it's another Enfield!

Have fun,

Regards,

Gaston

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=30


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Hope to have saved a few of you "the search"
tommyt

Offline gunnut69

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Re: Does anyone blue their own guns? How?
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2009, 08:05:26 AM »
I have used Brownells OxphoBlue for many years with great results. It doesn't get as dark as caustic salt tanks but is quick and easy.. I use the material on heated steel and apply with a clean pad. The material is kept in a squeeze bottle and only that needed to wet the pad is exposed to air.. Keep the surface of the steel wet as long as the bluing is getting darker. Then dry the metal and burnish with 00 steel wool. This burnishes the blue and makes it darker and shinier.. OxphoBlue is described as a cold parkerizing and wears really well. I much prefer the liquid and one must never contaminate the bottle pour in a small container or squirt bottle.. Most blues (hot or cold) contain toxic chemicals and metalic compounds that will cause trouble so clean up after and don't smoke or eat while they are in use.
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