Author Topic: Reloading confusion  (Read 830 times)

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Offline GH1

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Reloading confusion
« on: June 02, 2009, 12:01:51 AM »
I'm just starting to get into reloading and I'm a little confused.  I have two manuals, one from Speer & one from Hornady.  What confuses me is the Speer book says I can use much more powerful loads than the Hornady, and I don't know if it's because of their bullet composition or if Hornady is just more cautious.   Also, the Speer book is from 1995 and the Hornady is from 2000.  Does this make a difference? I'm going to load .38/.357, and eventually .380 ACP, so if anybody can give me a tip on powder I'd sure appreciate it.  I was thinking about using Unique because it appears to be applicable for all three calibers. 
Any help would be appreciated.
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Offline 1sourdough

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2009, 01:18:03 AM »
 I cross reference several manuals before loading. Some can average higher on the charge weights than others. Unique would be fine in the 38/357, I use Hodgdon Universal myself. I'd have to look to see how it would work in the 380. Just be sure you start out in the lower listed charge weights with whatever powder you go with. Of course don't go below listed powder charge weights.
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Offline Land_Owner

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2009, 01:29:02 AM »
Hodgdon Powder has an on-line database that includes the calibers you indicate, which recommends an assortment of powders and bullet combinations.  It is not exhaustive (i.e. there are hundreds of other combinations - at least).  http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

It is recommended that you purchase a late edition (2007, 2008 or 2009) bullet manufacturer's reloading manual.  Use your older manuals for reference and comparison only.  Chemical formulas change over time.  The powder Mfgs. are the best source for published change.  If some cartridge "recipe" seems out of proportion, it probably is.  Check twice and shoot once.

Err on the side of conservatism and safety.  You don't want to blow up any of your toys or your hand.

Unique, while a suitable all around powder, is IMO, a dirty and incomplete burning powder.  I have shot a lot of Unique.  I prefer Hodgdon Clays or IMR 700-X.

Offline GH1

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2009, 11:20:30 AM »
Thanks for the advice guys.
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Offline Dand

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2009, 11:50:36 PM »
Does your Speer  manual have the article "Why ballisticians get gray."  in it? Its a good read especially since you are going to reload 38/357. LOTS of variations in the recipes for these cartridges - especially over time.  It seems like more recent Speer manuals have become much more conservative. I was just reading my Speer #13 and it no longer recommends using any of their jacketed bullets for standard pressure 38 Specials, yet Hornady manual # 5  (or #6??) lists a lot of loads for their jacketed bullets in 38 special.  So does Sierra.

Like the other posters say, look at several manuals and see what a "happy medium" and always start  a little low.  Also can depend on your gun. If you have an old light built 38 be conservative.   If you have a super sturdy 357 mag you can start low but the gun may tolerate you working up to higher, but still in safe, recommended, levels. Firmness of crimp, case & primers used, are also factors that cause wide variations in recommended loads.

I shoot a lot of unique in my 38/357 loads, especially for lead bullets and don't mind the soot. Unique is a very handy powder for many cartridges, great stuff and if I had to reduce the types I have, it would be one of the keepers. There are more modern powders but it works well.  The Hodgdon Clays series of powders do burn pretty clean. I'm just experimenting with Universal Clays in handgun loads - seems fine so far but I  may save it for shotgun loading.

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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2009, 01:33:53 AM »
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline GH1

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2009, 12:27:29 PM »
Thanks for the link, it was an informative read.  I'm not really surprised there are  differences, it's not unlike the variance in horsepower of identical engines.  Production tolerances definately play a role.  As far as my particular gun, it's a Taurus M65 .357, 4" barrel.  It's a pretty stout gun so I think it should be able to handle a more aggressive load.  I'll just have to play with it.  I must say, I'm finding this whole reloading business to be quite fascinating, I think I'm going to enjoy the hell out of it.  I'm also sure I'll have a bunch more questions, so thanks in advance.
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Offline BBF

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 04:07:10 AM »
 ;D
and here I though the devil was the only one to enjoy Hell :D
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 07:04:36 AM »
BBF, I think a closer inspection indicates he is going to "enjoy the hell out of it"...and by that I assume he is going to be SUPER CAUTIOUS.

Offline GH1

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2009, 11:29:46 AM »
When I said I'd enjoy the hell out of it I meant I'm going to like it immensely and have a great deal of fun with it.  I'll probably learn a whole bunch as well and of course, I'll be extremely careful.  I fully understand the seriousness of it and the potential for firearm damage and personal injury.
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Offline BBF

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2009, 05:37:08 AM »
Lordy !
I presume you all understood that my post was a play on the words..............I hope.

I still remember my reloading beginnings, at least a few of them.
Example of Bewilderment:

Why would I put in less powder for a heavier bullet when it takes more work to get it out of the barrel then a lighter bullet? Is this a misprint and it is supposed to be the other way around. :-\

How do those guys expect me to count out 32.5 grains of those little bitty pieces of powder!?? I'm going to sit here for days, straining my eyes and probably get some wrong anyway. ???

Go ahead laugh ! This is what happened, there wasn't anybody around I could ask, and the Internet was far off Science Fiction in those days.
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Offline Robert357

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2009, 08:07:26 PM »
Does this make a difference? GH1 :)

You have gotten a lot of good advice.  I would like to share a few thoughts with you.  Don't believe ANYTHING you read in a single source and ALWAYS do a load work up starting well below max powder level and LOOK for signs of overpressure as you progress through shooting the load work up.

I was once duing a load work up on a 158 gain jacketed 357 Magnum round using a factory print out for Alliant 2400 powder.  I carefully printed out the powder manufacturer information and max powder rating.  (I still have that piece of paper as a reminder).  I loaded round in 0.2 grain increments (5 rounds per powder increment) from 0.2 above the minimum load to the maximum load.

I took them out to the range and started to shoot them in a Ruger Blackhawk single action 357 magnum.  The Ruger is built like a tank and some reloading manuals have sections that show much higher and special max powder loads for both Ruger Blackhawks and Thompson Contender handguns.

As I fired the first five rounds I noted the accuracy the felt muzzle recoil in my reloading spiral binder.  The next five rounds seemed pretty stout.  The next five seemed really excessive.  I was starting to wonder and looked at the the brass for overpressure signs.  The primers were getting kind of flattened, but I was well below the manufacturers max powder load. 

I shot the next five and they were even more powerful and the primers were even flatter, but still a long way to go until max powder.

I shot the next five and one was hard to extract and they all had much flatter primers.  I took some of my spent brass into the range masters office and asked him what he thought.  He said that the flattened primers and the very small remaining ring around the primer was a sign of over pressure as was the hard extraction, but hey it was way below what my piece of paper said and my Ruger is a strong action.

I went back out and started to fire the next five.  I only shot 2 of the 5 rounds before I decided it was time to quit.  Both were hard to extract from the cylinder.  I put the ammo away with about 13 or 18 rounds left unfired.  I pulled all the unfired rounds with a kennetic bullet puller and felt like a big chicken.

I started to post questions on a number of forums.  Within a few weeks when I checked back on the manufacturers website, I found that they had lowered the maximum load to 0.2 grains below where I has stopped my shooting.  Therefore, I stopped at a point above max load in a Ruger Blackhawk.  I changed my mind from being a chicken to understanding that I always need to trust that little voice in my head that says when to stop.

Lesson learned:  (1) Never trust any single source of reloading information, look at several and always start low that is confirmed by several reloading sources.  (2) Always due a load work up.  Never just pick a powder charge amount if you haven't previously done a work up with a particular firearm, caliber/cartridge, and/or bullet weight.  (3) Always look for signs of overpressure and stop at the "first" sign of overpressure.  (4) Never feel guilty of stopping below max powder and never feel guilty about pulling loads that you think are too hot.

Good luck, use low conservative values and be careful.

Offline Doug B.

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2009, 12:58:28 AM »
Hodgdon Powder has an on-line database that includes the calibers you indicate, which recommends an assortment of powders and bullet combinations.  It is not exhaustive (i.e. there are hundreds of other combinations - at least).  http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

It is recommended that you purchase a late edition (2007, 2008 or 2009) bullet manufacturer's reloading manual.  Use your older manuals for reference and comparison only.  Chemical formulas change over time.  The powder Mfgs. are the best source for published change.  If some cartridge "recipe" seems out of proportion, it probably is.  Check twice and shoot once.

Err on the side of conservatism and safety.  You don't want to blow up any of your toys or your hand.


Do you suppose that corporate lawyers suggested lowering charges just to cover their behinds, or have there indeed been documented changes over the years?

I most certainly err on the conservative side when working up loads. Just curious.

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Offline helotaxi

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2009, 04:18:18 AM »
Powders have changed over the years.  Testing methods have changed as well.  Put the two together and it's quite feasible that the safe charge has gone down or that with the newer testing methods/equipment a load previously thought below SAAMI max pressure wasn't.

Offline GH1

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Re: Reloading confusion
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2009, 01:12:56 PM »
 That Hodgdon link was very informative, so much so that I  printed out the data for  my calibers.  I was able to find a few different powders that will work in them all, now I just need to make up my mind which to use.   I'm sure things like price & availability will come into play as well.
Thanks for the help everyone.
GH1 :)
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