Author Topic: Smoke and Fire  (Read 643 times)

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Offline Will Bison

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Smoke and Fire
« on: June 01, 2009, 06:13:45 AM »
A few weeks ago a fella stops by my house and inquires about cannons and did he see one in my yard. Well of course he did, doesn't everyone? One thing lead to another so I invited him and another chap to go shoot. The conversation on the way home involved questions about how much will it cost, who makes tubes, what's the best caliber, internet resources, in short I can see more cannons in the local area very soon.

The gun in the video was one I made about 20 years ago. Its been my primary shooter since completion. Anyway, have a peek.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYAB8ocgNgE

Bill

Offline Div Arty

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Re: Smoke and Fire
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 08:28:51 AM »

Will,  Great presentation, looks like a new club in the making.  Was that your homemade black powder?

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Smoke and Fire
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 11:48:34 AM »
I enjoyed watching your video Will, good job. It looks like you all had a fine time.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline brokenpole

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Re: Smoke and Fire
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 12:24:19 PM »
Nice shooting sir!!!

Also my new saying.  To hell with fire in da hole.  Just make it short and sweet...SEND IT!!!

I like it   ;D

Offline Will Bison

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Re: Smoke and Fire
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 01:37:15 PM »
Some of the powder was my own and some Goex.

"Fire in the hole" is not the best phrase to use in a fire prone State. "Send It" is a sniper term and "On the way" is an old tanker reply.  ;D

Bill

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Smoke and Fire
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2009, 06:57:56 AM »
     Bill,   Sure loved your movie!  What a cool way to introduce some fellows to this great hobby.  If I remember correctly you are shooting a lead solid shot of about 18 oz. without a patch.  Is that correct?  How much powder and at what distance was the target?  Looks like 200 yards.  Mike and I love to see dust drift out from behind our targets, just like your gun produced.  Tell us more about the tube and carriage.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Will Bison

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Re: Smoke and Fire
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2009, 08:39:07 AM »
Mike/Tracy

Yep, solid shot of lead that weighs 20 oz with a very light patch unless I use a sabot. Charge is 100 grams of Goex 1f or my own brand that screens to about cannon grade. I favor a thin patch with a naked ball due to the rifling and the fact that the ball sometimes rolls forward after loading. With the sabot I used Gorilla glue to hold ball, sabot and powder together as a single unit.

Good guess on the distance, 185 yards according to Google Earth. First target was an old dead tree that doesn't show up in the clips. Second target was a large piece of white granite that is visible at 170 yards. The rock always wins, lead balls ain't no match against an armored target.

The gun is made from "Obtanium", defined as a collection of parts and pieces that when assembled will look like a cannon. The basis for the tube is a 47mm Jap Type 01 antitank gun. Rather than use a breech plug I used a breech cap of 41xx steel to beef up the area over the chamber. The carriage is Red and White Oak and the steel furniture is all made from bits of left over scrap. Last Winter I painted the carriage OD and refinished all metal. Wheels are Amish carriage wheels, not what I really wanted but available. The upside is that the Timken roller bearings are good to 60 MPH.   ;D ;D

Length of bore is 29 inches, all up weight 365 lbs, OAL just shy of eight feet, width is 48 inches and wheel diameter is 38 inches. I had these dimensions in mind prior to building so the gun would just fit in a pickup truck bed.

Obviously the gun is not patterned after any particular original gun, but rather designed as a shooter.

Some other technical observations: Dispersion of shot seems more horizontal than vertical. Doing a frame by frame analysis of some of the video, the trail moves left/right during initial recoil as it travels over small pebbles on the ground. Next time I shoot video I'll use the Casio F1 high speed camera for a better look. Perhaps a small platform under the trail to arrest movement????

I also added a down spring from the cascabel to the carriage. Previous video showed some breech bounce before the ball exited the tube and that caused some verticle dispersion. The spring fixed that little annoyance.

Sighting is via a pin on the front and a simple vernier tang on the rear. Sight radius is exactly 36 inches (not by design but by luck).

We recovered three of the balls that had sabots attached and by gosh it looks like the glue stuck and stabalised the balls. Now wether that was a result of spin or just shuttlecocking I've yet to determine. The sabots were not recovered, that would have answered more questions.

Last year we fired the gun on a dry lake bed at 1,000 meters and a 60 gallon plastic drum was in grave danger at that distance. Once we burned up a whole bunch of ammo to get the range, fire for effect put 2 out of ten rounds in the drum. That was done with just a thin patch on the ball. We were not able to recover any of the balls, they followed the Energizer Rabbit.

Bill

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Smoke and Fire
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 06:38:09 PM »
     Thanks for all those details, Bill.  We know a LOT more about your cannon now.  We particularly enjoyed reading the part about this subject:

 

We recovered three of the balls that had sabots attached and by gosh it looks like the glue stuck and stabalised the balls. Now wether that was a result of spin or just shuttlecocking I've yet to determine. The sabots were not recovered, that would have answered more questions.

Last year we fired the gun on a dry lake bed at 1,000 meters and a 60 gallon plastic drum was in grave danger at that distance. Once we burned up a whole bunch of ammo to get the range, fire for effect put 2 out of ten rounds in the drum. That was done with just a thin patch on the ball. We were not able to recover any of the balls, they followed the Energizer Rabbit.

Bill

      Seems like that Gorilla glue works better that the 5 min epoxy we have been using lately.  Looks like you had real good accuracy on that 185 yard target, so if neither the sabot or the ball displayed any rifling marks, it can safely be presumed that the shuttlecock effect provided very good direction-of-flight stabilization.  Another great thing about shooting cannons is that there is usually no doubt about where you hit, even a the longer ranges.  Mike says, "I wouldn't want to be hiding behind a tree-trunk at 1,000 meters if Bill was zeroed for that range!"  I agree!  I bet you could do a terrific job on a 30 gal. liquid wax drum full of water at 100 yards as well.  I tried that about 25 years ago when I owned a Ruger No. 1 Tropical in .458 Win. Mag.  The results were extremely disappointing in that there was no jumping of the drum, no visible splashing, just a neat hole in the front and a two foot tear in the back which simply let the water drain out unnoticed.  I know that your cannon would let all the water out in a spectacular, 1/10 second, spray!!

Thanks again for such an interesting answer,

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Victor3

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Re: Smoke and Fire
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 12:11:41 AM »
 That's one of the best cannon videos I've seen in a long time. I like the shots where you can see the ball hit. Sure got there quick, and looked dang close to point of aim.

 Gotta think about how much powder I can safely stuff into the 40mm I'm designing. Can't have the ball rolling flaccidly out of the muzzle :-\
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes