FA .454 vs. .475, field vs premier grade

[LarryL]

Hi all,

I am considering making the big expenditure for a Freedom Arms pistol.  My two questions are caliber and grade.  I currently have a SRH in .480, and have the Hornady titanium reloading dies for .480/.475.  That would steer me towards getting the .475 version of the FA.  My primary hunting is for whitetails in NH, so .475 or .454 are both more than plenty.  Even if I go for a NH moose permit, either would be plenty.  The .454 has better ballistics out past 100 yds, but I have the dies for the .475.

As I understand it, the field grade is built to the same standards, but has a less polished finish.  I definitely don't like the rubber grips, but they can be replaced.  On the other hand, the premier grade is much more expensive.  Especially since I have a local shop that has new premier grades at very high prices ($2K and higher) vs. another local shop that has used field grades at very reasonable prices (~$1K).  The used field grades are all in .454, hence my consideration of that caliber vs. the .475/.480.

If I go with field grade, I might have to wait a while for a used one in .475 vs. .454s available now.  If I get a field grade now in .454, I'll have to sell my .475 die set and buy one for .454.

So, what are the opinions of those of you more knowledgable than me regarding the field vs. premier grade?  I've never owned a FA pistol, but I'm expecting either grade will be an outstanding firearm.

Thanks!!   :-D    :-D  

Larry

[DennisE]

Have you had a chance to shoot the .454 and/or the .475 out of any handgun?  I'd try to do that before I made the choice and sunk big bucks into a FA.  I am a range officer at a very large public range.  I hear lots of manly talk but I see very few men or women that can and/or do learn to handle these calibers at 25 yards, let alone at 100 yards.  Many folks seem to find the .475 even more of a handful that the .454.  I think anything your talking about hunting can be safely harvested with a well placed, stout .44 Magnum or .45 Colt so I don't see it as an issue at the animal end of the bullet as much as at the shooter's end of the gun.  Dennis

[Woodchuk]

Derry, NH huh?  Must be shopping at Al's?  (I go to school in Boston and have had the pleasure of stopping in on Al on several occasions...I've always recieved pleasant service even though it was clear I had no intention to buy anytime soon.)

A few of the advantages of the Premier grade are a lifetime warranty and that the finish is a brushed finish that is supposedly easily refurbished with some fine steel wool, whereas scratches on the field grade cannot be fixed up as easily  (so I've heard...I don't have one myself but have "researched" the issue as I plan to buy a FA soon as I save up the money).

I live in New York right now and have decided that for hunting everything around here, I'm going to get a M97 in .45.....I don't feel that I need anything any bigger.

That being said, if I was going to get a M83, I'd go with the .475/.480.  Hope this helps.

[MS Hitman]

Well I own several FAs and can cover all the bases on this question.  I've got both the field and premeir grades, as well as .454 and .475.  I talk the manly talk, cause I can do the manly walk (just couldn't resist putting that in).  Several things to consider:

1. Don't worry about the warranty or service.  I am not the original owner on either of my .454s and both have had internal work done under warranty while back for other work.  John Carey (head gunsmith) is very meticulous about the revolvers and has always gone through mine when they were at the factory.  My 10" .454 had sling swivels and micarta grips added after I got it.  My 7.5" had micarta grips added after I bought it.  The wood just doesn't seem to hold up as well in my experience.
 
2. I prefer the field grade finish for hunting.  Yes, the premeir grade is a bit easier to polish out a scratch, but it can also be done on the field grade.  Just to give you an idea of the kind of service you can expect with FA, I fell down while on a hunt and scratched both the frame and grip panel on my .475.  The first question I was asked when I called the factory to inquire how much the repairs would be was "Are you okay?"  By the way, the revolver was refinished gratis; all I paid was shipping.
 
3.  I prefer setting up my open sighted revovlers with the premeir sights and ebony micarta grip panels.  My .475 was ordered that way.  I will be trying a set of v-notch/ gold bead sights after Christmas and deer season are over.  I shot deer with my open sighted revolvers in each caliber out past 100 yards.  So has my friend Larry Rogers.  My first shot on my Gemsbok was at nearly 125 yards.

4.  As you said, either caliber is capable of taking any animal you would go after.  The only reason I took my .454 to Africa was that my .475 wasn't ready at the time.  Might have made me feel just a bit better had I been holding a .475 instead of a .454 the nights lions were in the camp.  Dies are cheap compared to the cost of a firearm, so I wouldn't let that be a deciding factor.

5.  Both calibers are easy to load for a wide spectrum of uses.  My favorite plinking load for my .475 is 8.0 grains of WW231 behind a 400 grain cast bullet.  Gives me a nominal 850 fps load and is accurate in my gun out to 100 yards.  At least the clay pidgeons are impressed.  I find the .454 can be a bit brutal on your ears regardless of how it is loaded.

At this point, the .454 is the more versatile of the two calibers.  There's not much left to do it hasn't done and has nothing left to prove.  However, I find that more and more I am taking my .475 out in the field.  Just took a cow elk at 60 yards with my .475.  I ordered my .475 with the 6" barrel, as I plan to use it for Cape Buffalo in a couple of years.  I have no plans to scope it, it's intended to be a stopping gun.  

I would pick up a .475 now just , as Finn Aagard put it, to fulfill the primordal instinct to grab the biggest club available.  If you want to, and can, get into a used .454 for around $1000 I wouldn't hesitate on that either.  In fact, that's exactly how I got into myself.

[Graybeard]

First off let me say I can't even understand why you are even discussing the $30 die set when you're talking about a gun that is gonna cost you $1000 or more. If you can't afford a new die set you sure can't afford the gun. Don't let the die set you have even enter the picture.

Now of a bit more importance and not yet touched on is that you now own an SRB in .480. SAs and DA revolvers deliver recoil in drastically different ways. Generally speaking a person prefers one or the other. I'm a confirmed DA man and hate the way any and all SAs deliver recoil. The FA83 and Ruger Bisley are better than the plow handles for me but still fall far short of the way a DA delivers the recoil.

When I was testing the FA83 and RB both in .454 Casull I found the upper level loads in the FA83 punishing even with a scope on it. In the RB even minus scope I found all loads to be mild and pleasant to shoot. Minus the scope several of the COR-BON and Buffalo Bore loads brought blood from me in the FA83. Not what I call fun.

The .475 is just more of the same recoil wise. My advice before you jump head long into a purchase that is gonna cost you over $1000 even for the cheaper version is to make darn sure first that you like the way the single action FA83 delivers the recoil unless you already know you handle it well in them. Many prefer it from the FA and other SA guns. BUT not everyone does. We're all made up differently and we all shoot and hold our guns differently.

I love the workmanship of the FA guns. I hope some day to be able to own one but it won't be a .475 and it likely won't be a .454 Casull when I do. I find the recoil just too punishing for me in those calibers. I'll stick to DAs at that recoil level. Now maybe a .44 mag FA83....well yup that might tempt me.

GB

[Lloyd Smale]

Dont own a FA gun but have shot a few of both and there both good guns. Dont own a .454 had one and sold it. Do own a .475 and love it.  I will catch flack for this but i dont have much use for a .454 the .45 colt will take care of anything that a .454 will. I shoot only cast bullets and imo when you push one past 1400 fps your not gaining a thing. If you want more power then the .45 colt or .44 mag you need a bigger bullet. Id much rather face something dangerous with a 400 grain .475 bullet at 1200fps then a .454 bullet at 1500fps. As far as recoil goes they both recoil ALOT! no matter what gun you shoot them in. There not for begginers! But with practice and by starting out with lighter loads can be mastered by most people that really want to master them. My girlfreind has shot midrange loads in my .500 and said it was more confortable to shoot then heavy .45 colt loads. Shes even touched off a couple 450s at 1300fps didnt like it but shes still alive. Pride of ownership my be a factor too. If your only going to buy one fa gun id say to go with a premier grade .475. Its an investment that will last your lifetime and its not time to quible about a couple hundred bucks. Someday I will probably break down and buy one but like greybeard ill probably buy something smaller. Id love to have a .44 special with a 4 5/8s barrel and fixed sights.

[Roller]

I have two Premier Grade .454 and a Premier Grade .475.  I prefer the looks of the Premier Grade finish.  It runs the price up quite a bit, but to me it is worth paying for.  I got a 7.5 inch 454 first.  In my opinion, if a person is going to have only one Freedom Arms, this is the one to get.  It is set up perfectly with a good scope on it, but can also be easily shot with open sights.  The 7.5 inch barrel is a good choice for either.  I will say, though, that my 6 inch .475 with the octagonal barrel is, by far, my favorite.

[MS Hitman]

Like Greybeard said, everyone's different.  I happen to be more comfortable with the SA recoil than DA chambered in the same caliber.  But I can and do shoot both.  

I'll disagree a bit about the recoil of the .475 being just more of the same.  The .454 has a much sharper recoil than does the .475, unless I load the 325s hot.  Most of my .475 shooting is done with 400 grain bullets now anyway.  With the heavy 400 grain loads iI feel more of a shove than a sharp recoil.  Everyone's different.

Neither caliber has to be run full bore for every shot.  Most don't drive their car as fast as it will go the entire time; why shoot that way?  

Model 83s chambered for .475 are getting more popular.  HHI just had a hunt in MO this past October and four of the five FAs used were chambered for .475.  One guy had his .454.  

Lloyd, even if he is a heretic, is right about the heavy loaded .45s.   They'll do most anything asked of them.

[Graybeard]

Id love to have a .44 special with a 4 5/8s barrel and fixed sights.

Now you're getting even closer to what might cause me to turn loose the money for an FA but that would be in an FA97 not an FA83 if I got it. I'd also want a longer barrel and adjustable sights but the FA97 in .44 Special just could be my first FA revolver if I come up with the bucks for one. I sure hated to let the .45 Colt go back to Bob and kept it as long as he'd let me    but just wasn't able to put the bucks together to keep it. If it had been in .44 Special rather than .45 Colt it sure would have hurt even more to have to return it to him after the review.

I love the workmanship of those FA revolvers but in the bigger boomers the way I shoot just isn't compatible with that level of recoil for me to really lay out that kinda money. When I finally break down and get one it will be a milder recoiling one. Just gotta decide which.

GB

[Zeus]

I have a 7.5" 454 Premier that I use for just about everything at this point.  I had a 4x Leupold on it but took it off because I don't care for the look of it and with the iron sights, I have no problem hitting with it.  My next one will be a 6" premier in 475 like the one that Hitman has.  I've shot his and love it.  I will have to agree with Hitman on the recoil issue.  the 475 is not nearly as sharp and fast as the 454.  However, it can be loaded with light bullets that would lead to that but you are defeating the purpose of the round itself if you do that.  I like the versatility of the 454, you can load it to 45 Colt velocities or you can hot rod the 454s just for fun.  The 454 is snappy but I would not consider it uncomfortable.  It rolls out of the FA and does not push straight back like a DA.  I look forward to the 475 but it will be a while before I probably buy it because I have a list of wants and don't really know which I want first.  Terrible dilemna (sp?) I tell you.  As hitman mentioned though, I would definetely opt for the micarta grips.  I had to send my gun back to have the grips replaced because the wood ones busted near the trigger gaurd.  You'll be happy with either one but I would probably pick the 475 for my first.  I would have but ran across a great deal on a 454 and couldn't pass it up.

BTW:  Hitman, we made it up here fine.  No snow this year for Christmas though.  Hope you all had a great Christmas.  Talk with you next week.  Later.  GS

[LarryL]

Hi all,

Well, lots of replies to that post!  I thank you all for the feedback, and I'll try to respond to a few of the comments...

Currently I have the SRH in .480 with the 7-1/2" barrel, and a SBH in .44 mag with a 5-1/2" barrel.  I reload for both.  I run a fairly hot LilGun load with a 370gr cast in the SRH, and typically load fairly hot 2400 loads with 240gr JFP in the SBH.  I also shoot some of the hot Corbon hunting loads in the .44.  I have previously owned both a .44 Desert Eagle and a .44 S&W 629.  So, while I have not fired either the .454 or the .475, the .480 loads I'm shooting in the SRH are reasonably lively.  I don't feel that I am particularly recoil sensitive.  I also will be reloading, so I don't have to run loads in the stratosphere for hunting whitetails.  But the .454 and .475 leave me that option if I decide to go for Moose.

I personally find the short barreled SBH .44 is a real pussycat to shoot as long as I hold it properly.  If I get way up too high on it, it can bang the middle finger with the trigger guard.  If I hold it right, I can shoot 50-100 hot handloads in a sitting at the range without having it bother me in the slightest.  I found the S&W 629 far less pleasant, and would start to make the web of the hand sore after a while.  I had Pachmere Gripper grips on it, and I think that contributed to the problem.  They were too narrow across the backstrap and focused the recoil energy right into the web.

The .480 SRH has a rubber Hogue Monogrip on it.  It definitely stings a bit in the palm of the hand, but it is not that big a deal and I still shoot it quite a bit in a range sitting without any lasting annoyance.  The .480 will group about 3" at 100 yds if I do my part.

One might ask why I'm looking at the FAs.  I just prefer the SA style pistol, and drool every time I look at the FAs.

My comment about the dies is just that engineer part of me that hates to see something go to waste.  Obviously if I get the .454, I'll get a new set of dies, and sell the old set.

I do prefer the .475 bore, but have not found any field grade used guns.  The only used ones I have seen are .454s.  I looked at both of them today at Kittery Trading Post.  They are both around $1100.  Both have 7-1/2" barrels and are magnaported.  One has a 2X Nikon scope on it.  But, it has a ding in the hammer, a ding in the scope, has a scratch on the side, and the front sight blade is all afloat.  I'd be using the scope anyway, but it looks like someone was not so kind to the gun.  The other has a gold bead style front sight and square notch rear.  I would be putting on a scope or dot sight anyway.  But, $1100 for a used field grade with no optics seems a bit on the steep side.

I expected to get lots of opinions on both sides of the caliber issue, but it's always good to hear others' opinions.  Sounds like the field grade finish has some proponents out there.  

Again, thank you all for your feedback and comments.

 :-D    :-D  

[Graybeard]

Well it sounds like you really are one of those who prefer the way the SA guns recoil over the DA so I'd say the FA83 is definitely the gun for you. Given a choice between .454 and .475 I'd probably take the .475 and shoot .480s in it.  

GB

[Mike C]

My first FA was a field grade 454 back in 1988, next one was another field .454 that I bought from a buddy that after firing about 30 rounds didn't want it anymore.  On the second FA I cut the barrel down to 4-3/4" but regretted that almost immediately.  About 6 years ago Jack Huntington  rebarreled the second .454 to .475 with a 7-1/2" Pac Nor barrel, it is as or more accurate as a .475 than it was as a .454.  The third FA is a model 97 in .45 colt 5-1/2" barrel, it is my favorite.

If you carry the gun in a holster all day hunting in mountainous terrain even the model 83's are heavy and what I have learned is that the .45 is plenty of gun at least up to elk size game.  

For those of us old enough to remember when you could buy a three bedroom house for $10,000 and cars were $2,000 (1960) the price of a FA sounds high but when you consider that a new diesel pickup costs $40,000+,  $2K for your favorite toy is one great deal and it will never go down in value and last several lifetimes.  The computer you are setting at likely costs alomost as much as a good revolver and in a year or two you will replace it and it will have almost zero resale value.  Spend your money where it gives the best return; buy all the guns you want and enjoy an investment that is money well spent and have something to leave your grand kids that they will treasure.

Mike C

[44 Man]

Darn it Mike, I was just starting to enjoy my computer.  I have a FA premier grade set up like a stalker by Mag-na-port.  Love the gun, but I had it beaded to soften the finish for hunting-go figure.  I tend to agree that you can do whatever is needed with a heavy cast bullet .44 mag or a heavy loaded .45 colt.  But I have to admit it would be fun to own one of the "big boomers".  Can't never have enough guns!    PS  Sorry Graybeard, I do not like the way a 29 S&W or a RH feels or recoils, and a SRH has all the class of a brick.  Single action's just "feel right" for packing, thumbing back the hammer, or coming up on target.  With my first SBH I learned to relax my wrist a little so as to "roll with the recoil" instead of "death gripping" it and having it twist around in my hands.  Then the fun started!    44 Man

[swifty]

I have held a used model 83 454 field grade.I love the sound of the clicks.
I am going through the process to rationalize the cost difference.
Its priced for about $1000. My concerns are about its accuracy at modest loads, say 1400 feet per sec. Will these guns shoot a tighter group than a well lapped SRH  at modest loads?Do you need to firelap these guns to get them shooting their best? I cast my own bullets and enjoy the process of firelapping . Usually I cast a gas checked bullet as Veral Smith recommends.Leading isn't much of a concern.
Do these guns need a trigger job to get a nice crisp trigger pull?
Finally about recoil. I hunt with a Ruger SRH  44 magnum -300 grain cast lead bullet on top of 20 grains of W296. I don't find this objectionable. How does the recoil for the 454 300 grain bullet at 1400 to 1500 feet per/sec.?

[MS Hitman]

I have found my FAs to be very accurate regardless of the velocity of the loads I am shooting.  These revolvers do not need to be firelapped, or anything else for that matter.  Also, if you can't tell the difference in quality between a FA and a SRH just by holding them, well......