Author Topic: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming  (Read 1784 times)

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Offline kody

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Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« on: November 18, 2008, 10:03:30 AM »
   I'm looking for info about  small as possible rifle cases that can use large rifle primers. The diameter is the critical measurement . A .244Rem. has been used and I want to get smaller than that. This shell will be cut down to approx 1/2" to 3/4" and used in a head-spaced breech-plug to ignite Muzzle-loader rifles that are using the new Buck Horn powder ,which doesn't react properly [ consistent hangfires ] with small-rifle primers. 209 shotshell primers are suspected of having too much power ,causing flyers. Any ideas?   Ken

Online Graybeard

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2008, 05:45:15 PM »
The .35 Remington uses large rifle primers it's a bit smaller. I suspect so does the .30 Remington which likely means so does the new 6.8 Remington which I believe is a bit smaller still. I know of nothing smaller than that.


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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2008, 04:38:46 AM »
The Winchester 7.62X39 brass uses the large rifle primer; Remington uses the small primer.

The base dia is .446
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2008, 07:09:45 PM »
There you go, cut a breach plug for that and you will have as much energy spread as you can stand, using all avaliable primers from small pistol to large rilfe Magnum primers.  I can't imagine you will not find a primer with the right output in that range.  Larry
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Offline IOWA DON

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2008, 07:26:44 AM »
I bought some .17 Remington cases which were reamed out for shotgun primers and some .22 Hornet cases which were reamed out for large rifle primers. The purpose of these were so that air rifle pelets could be loaded in them without any powder charge. That is, the only propelant for the pellet was to be the primer. I suspect the remaining brass in the case was too thin for the kind of pressure in a muzzle loader. However, I am thinking one could mofify .222 Rem or .223 Rem cases to hold large rifle primers and still have adaquate brass remaining.

Offline kody

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2008, 11:58:10 AM »
  Thanks to all of you,I will pursue those leads. If any of you have any contact that has knowledge of case constuction that might lend itself to this project ,share it with me please. As was mentioned there are a lot of things done that are relatively narrow in scope such as shooting small projectiles in primer powered cases. I remember ,long ago reading about base strength in various types and brands due to their construction ,as seen in cross-sectional views,but that was then and this is now! Thanks again,  Ken

Offline trotterlg

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2008, 01:09:34 PM »
Take a look at a 32 S&W case, it is rimmed and will give the same brass thickness around the primer as a .223 will, also if you used a 32 S&W short the case may be the proper length without cutting it down.  Larry
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Offline kody

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2008, 04:10:19 PM »
 If a.32 S&W would work with a small rifle primers of higher ratings and that case would handle the load that might kill the need to find a large rifle case or enlarge a small rifle pocket.   Thank you Larry,     Ken

Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2008, 12:10:41 PM »
   I'm looking for info about  small as possible rifle cases that can use large rifle primers. The diameter is the critical measurement . A .244Rem. has been used and I want to get smaller than that. This shell will be cut down to approx 1/2" to 3/4" and used in a head-spaced breech-plug to ignite Muzzle-loader rifles that are using the new Buck Horn powder ,which doesn't react properly [ consistent hangfires ] with small-rifle primers. 209 shotshell primers are suspected of having too much power ,causing flyers. Any ideas?   Ken

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with the 209 primers. I am having very good results using CCI 209M primers which are the hottest 209's available. If you wanted a more mild 209 than any of the standard 209 should work.

Typically, BlackHorn needs a hotter ignition source than other BP substitutes. I wouldn't even bother with the standard 209's after seeing the results with the magnums while shooting at 200 yds.

Offline kody

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2008, 03:46:03 PM »
 VARMINT HUNTER; I will be using a 209, I was just reacting to the reports of their possible excessive boost ,causing occasional "flyers" while doing a good job of ignition. Questions ; What kind of fit do you have with 209s in your primer cup/holder?---- What brand 209s do you use  and, what gun/ breechplug design are you using?  I've an NEF 7/8" Huntsman with a Hubbard plug/ primer cup that measures .006" larger than the Rem 209s I have. For that matter, what is the smallest diameter 209 cup being used by you guys?   Ken

Offline Duckhunter39480

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2009, 09:13:02 AM »
Remington once made a 209 shotshell primer specifically for the 410 bore.  This primer was supposedly a little lighter on the ignition and reduced/eliminated the flyers you mentioned.  It might be worth trying if you can find them.
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Offline anweis

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2009, 02:22:32 AM »
   I'm looking for info about  small as possible rifle cases that can use large rifle primers. The diameter is the critical measurement . A .244Rem. has been used and I want to get smaller than that. This shell will be cut down to approx 1/2" to 3/4" and used in a head-spaced breech-plug to ignite Muzzle-loader rifles that are using the new Buck Horn powder ,which doesn't react properly [ consistent hangfires ] with small-rifle primers. 209 shotshell primers are suspected of having too much power ,causing flyers. Any ideas?   Ken
wouldn't it be easier to change the powder?

Offline kody

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2009, 07:50:20 AM »
 It would be very easy to just use the powder I'm currently using and also the ignition methods that I've also used in the past. For that matter I could have stayed with my 30 yr. old CVA. I wanted to go in-line. I was looking at an all-weather 20 for my wife to use as a trail gun because she was encoutering so many grouse on her rides. I discovered .50 cal. Huntsman inlines, Stainless even. I got one and started paying attention to all of the things being written about them ,their strengths and weaknesses. Others showed me improvements ,they got me thinking of more improvements,and I have follower all and became impressed with the knowledge and experience of all those folks. It has settled down a lot with the addition of the MU -NEF breech-plug but a couple of people mentioned a perceived weakness in the system, that being the possibility of too much power in 209 primers . It was proven that the different brands and types of 209s had a fairly wide range of power and that ,along with other variables in lods and loading procedures might explain the occasional "flyer" Two solutions seemed possible;one was to run through all of the different 209 types. I would leave that to the other owners who were well into it already. The other was to expand on the .25ACP ignition idea. I heard of a .244 experiment that had promise but was limited to small rifle primers in all of their varieties. I thought instead of the .243 whch,in different brands used small rifle and large rifle primers. This allowed a very wide range of ignition power sources. The breech plug on an NEF won't allow such chambering so I'm looking for a round whose chambering would fit in an NEF breech plug and would have the strength to allow its primer pocket to be enlarged to a large rifle size. Another avenue would be to find a pistol round for reaming a chamber that happened to have the rim and base dimensions of a .243 which I could cut off to the pistol round length. Or,like you said,I could just change powders!  Ken 

Offline trotterlg

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2009, 07:23:33 PM »
Why don't you just buy some brass stock and machine out what ever you want to hold the primer?  Then you can make something that is not much larger in diameter than a LR primer.   Larry
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Offline kody

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Re: Sm. Rifle to L g . Rifle primer cup reaming
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2009, 03:22:52 PM »
   It's funny how easy some things can be ,in spite of all the hard work we go to to make them difficult. Can't see the forest for the trees is an affliction I 've had before and now it bit me again Larry. Thank you. It's about like the kid who advised all the headscratchers to just let some air out of the tires and the trailer can be pulled free of the underpass!   DUH      Ken