600 yds. with a 45-70?

[Coltsmoke]

Hi Veral, I thank God for you sharing your information with us! I just bought a Pedersoli Sharps in 45-70 with a 34" barrel. I will be shooting  BP with cast bullets from one of your molds, not ordered yet. I will be shooting competition on two ranges, one will be 100 to 200yds and the other one will be from 200yds out to 600yds. Can I do this with the 45-70, or should I have it reamed out to a 45-90 before I even start? Will I need 2 different bullets, one for each range? What will be the best to cast the bullet with WW, 20-1, or what? If I need two different bullets, can I use the same lead alloy for each? I have not shot the gun so I don't have any fireformed cases. Can I fireform a case with BP and just packing some patches in it, or do I need to actually shoot a bullet?  I have ordered your slugging kit and the push thru bullets for the barrel. I will be ordering your book and the lapping kit also.

[Veral]

  I'm sorta a one gun one bullet and load guy, so read my advise with that in mind.

  I have a lot of customers who compete out to 600 yards with the 45-70 and black powder.  My best bullet will be the SP1R, a one inch radius spitzer, at about 500 grains.  Best alloy will be sweetened WW, water dropped, and best diameter will be whatever it takes to get your chamber full when you load the rounds.  Black has to be run compressed, so use just whatever load that is.  Velocity will be a bit sluggish, but you'll get a lot of sideways glances when others down the line watch your groups form.

  Don't use any of the LBT lubes for real black powder.  Any of the brands which say wonder lube are good, and all are made by one company.  I hear lightening lube beats it, but last I knew it had to be purchased in 10 pound lots.  The black powder gang can fill you in on this, and I hear the rage is to split and order with several other shooters.  If you shoot a substitute powder, LBT lubes can't be beat.

  If you think you'll be hampered by the arching trajectory of a 1200 fps bullet, they rechamber for the longer cartridge, but shoot the same bullet.  I exect the extra recoil and powder cost might dampen your interest in the larger cartridge though.  Probably the best way to flatten the trajectory would be to go with 450 gr in the same nose profile.  The extra powder space will hurry your bullets quite a bit.

  Read down through all the 45-70 posts and you'll pick up a lot of helpfull information, I believe.

[Coltsmoke]

Thanks Veral, I'll leave it 45-70 and let you make the mold. What do you recommend on the mixture with the WW? How much compression do I need on 1.5 Swiss?

[cooper]

If it's OK, I'll step in here ahead of Veral and answer the compression question.

I've used a lot of Swiss in a Browning 40/65 and a Shiloh 40/70 Straight.  When Swiss first became available, the word was it did not like very much compression, and that's how I use it.  "Not very much" compression means from zero, up to about 0.1"  (by comparison, I compress Goex about .25-.30"). 

However, some shooters have found that Swiss will also perform well with a lot of compression.  So I guess the word is it likes either very little, or a lot, but nothing in between. 

I think most people use Swiss with minimal compression, and I suggest youstart off that way   -  around 0.05", plus or minus.  Just enough so you can barely feel or hear the grains compressing as you seat the bullet. 

BTW - one of the advantages of using 0.1" compression or less is that you don't need to do a separate step with a compression die.  Just compress as you're seating the bullet.

[Veral]

  As I was preparing to ask what Swiss was I came to Coopers answer.  Thank you very much.

  Don't mix anything with the WW if you want to keep costs low as possible, or ad a bit of tin to make it cast a little nicer.  However don't use more than two percent absoulte max, or bullets will age soften rapidly.  Best to add only one percent, as it improves castability about as well as two percent and increases hardness and hardness life.