556 ss109 for hunting?

[timothy]

I was just wondering what you all thought about military 62gr green tip penetraor 556 for use on deer? Could it be an alternative to using a premium bullet since its designed for penetration at high velocities? Thanks

[John R.]

I would say no, as the military isn't to keen on their stopping power on humans.

[243dave]

I doubt its legal in any state to use full metal jackets on big game. And plus its a bad idea. There is a reason big game bullets mushroom and that is for larger frontal area. When using small bores you what as much mushroom as possible to compensate for the small bore size. If you must use a 223 on deer use the best bullets even if you have to pay alot. Generally full metal jackets poke holes thru animals and if you have to track a deer it won't leave a blood trail. Try a barnes bullet or the 60gr partition, even winchester makes a factory load with their 64gr power points thats not expensive and made for deer. Use a big game bullet.   Dave

[Masterblaster1]

That ss10 will leave a .223" wound channel all the way through the deer- good luck recovering it unless you have snow. If you must use a .223 you need to use an expanding type bullet made for big game. Bullets of 60 grains or more. Nosler makes a 60 grain Partition, Barnes makes a 62 and 70 grain TSX, Winchester a 64 grain Powerpoint, bullets like these are the only suitable options for deer hunting with a caliber intended/designed  for varmint hunting and wounding humans in combat scenarios.

[nomosendero]

No way!!!!

[alsaqr]

Never used the military 5.56mm round on deer.  Not sure how well the SS109 (M855) round  performs on game. 

I have killed dozens of hogs with the 55 grain M193 round.  The 55 grain M193 bullet penetrates about 4-6" then yaws 90 degrees and fragments.  It will penetrate a rib get inside, yaw and fragment.  At ranges up to about 100 yards hogs die as if struck by lightning when they are hit right.  After about 100 yards, when fired from a 20" barrel, the velocity is down and the round is not so good of a killer.  I have never has a hog get away after being hit with the 55 grain bullet from the M193 round. 

Dr. Colonel Fackler is the foremost wound ballistics guy in the world:   

http://www.uthr.org/SpecialReports/Military_rifle_bullet_wound_patterns.htm

US M193 5.56x45mm - This bullet is fired from the US armed forces' first-generation smaller-calibre rifle, the M16A1. The large permanent cavity it produces, shown in the wound profile (Fig. 4), was observed by surgeons who served in Vietnam, but the tissue disruption mechanism responsible was not clear until the importance of bullet fragmentation as a cause of tissue disruption was worked out and described. As shown on the wound profile, this full-metal-jacketed bullet travels point-forward in tissue for about 12cm after which it yaws to 90°, flattens, and breaks at the cannelure (groove around bullet midsection into which the cartridge neck is crimped). The bullet point flattens but remains in one piece, retaining about 60 per cent of the original bullet weight. The rear portion breaks into many fragments that penetrate up to 7cm radially from the bullet path. The temporary cavity stretch, its effect increased by perforation and weakening of the tissue by fragments, then causes a much enlarged permanent cavity by detaching tissue pieces. The degree of bullet fragmentation decreases with increased shooting distance (as striking velocity decreases), as shown in Fig. 5. At a shooting distance over about 100m the bullet breaks at the cannelure, forming two large fragments and, at over 200m, it no longer breaks, although it continues to flatten somewhat, until 400m. This consistent change in deformation/fragmentation pattern has an important forensic application. It can be used to estimate shooting distance if the bullet is recovered in the body and has penetrated only soft tissue.

 

[nomosendero]

Never used the military 5.56mm round on deer.  Not sure how well the SS109 (M855) round  performs on game. 

I have killed dozens of hogs with the 55 grain M193 round.  The 55 grain M193 bullet penetrates about 4-6" then yaws 90 degrees and fragments.  It will penetrate a rib get inside, yaw and fragment.  At ranges up to about 100 yards hogs die as if struck by lightning when they are hit right.  After about 100 yards, when fired from a 20" barrel, the velocity is down and the round is not so good of a killer.  I have never has a hog get away after being hit with the 55 grain bullet from the M193 round. 

Dr. Colonel Fackler is the foremost wound ballistics guy in the world:   

http://www.uthr.org/SpecialReports/Military_rifle_bullet_wound_patterns.htm

US M193 5.56x45mm - This bullet is fired from the US armed forces' first-generation smaller-calibre rifle, the M16A1. The large permanent cavity it produces, shown in the wound profile (Fig. 4), was observed by surgeons who served in Vietnam, but the tissue disruption mechanism responsible was not clear until the importance of bullet fragmentation as a cause of tissue disruption was worked out and described. As shown on the wound profile, this full-metal-jacketed bullet travels point-forward in tissue for about 12cm after which it yaws to 90°, flattens, and breaks at the cannelure (groove around bullet midsection into which the cartridge neck is crimped). The bullet point flattens but remains in one piece, retaining about 60 per cent of the original bullet weight. The rear portion breaks into many fragments that penetrate up to 7cm radially from the bullet path. The temporary cavity stretch, its effect increased by perforation and weakening of the tissue by fragments, then causes a much enlarged permanent cavity by detaching tissue pieces. The degree of bullet fragmentation decreases with increased shooting distance (as striking velocity decreases), as shown in Fig. 5. At a shooting distance over about 100m the bullet breaks at the cannelure, forming two large fragments and, at over 200m, it no longer breaks, although it continues to flatten somewhat, until 400m. This consistent change in deformation/fragmentation pattern has an important forensic application. It can be used to estimate shooting distance if the bullet is recovered in the body and has penetrated only soft tissue.

 

I do see where this type bullet could do more damage in a Hog than a Deer.
Colonel Fackler info is a good read
Yep, good stuff, but the question was about Deer. 1. In thick areas you may not get total penetration, hence no blood trail & a Deer can cover 100-150 yds. in just a few seconds, in a clearcut that means a tough time to retrieve an animal. 2. If there is distance involved, over 150 yds or so, the energy is way down.

[sk330lc]

   

That ss10 will leave a .223" wound channel all the way through the deer- good luck recovering it unless you have snow. If you must use a .223 you need to use an expanding type bullet made for big game. Bullets of 60 grains or more. Nosler makes a 60 grain Partition, Barnes makes a 62 and 70 grain TSX, Winchester a 64 grain Powerpoint, bullets like these are the only suitable options for deer hunting with a caliber intended/designed  for varmint hunting and wounding humans in combat scenarios.

Could Not agree More!   The 65 gr Sierra SPBT Gameking  Is a Proven Bullet for me.

[rickt300]

My rifle has a 1 in 12 inch twist so the ammo you are referring tumbles and has no accuracy in my rifle.  I have used the M193 55 gr. bullet on deer during a culling operation and it worked nicely.  The law in some states reads that no FMJ bullets are legal and I am wondering if this includes mono metal bullets like the Nosler Etip and barnes X bullets.

[jmayton]

I've shot a lot of hogs and a few deer with the 55gr Sierra GameKing SBT.  It works great on deer (central Texas whitetail) and does an effective job on hogs, but doesn't get as much penetration as I would always like on big hogs.  An FMJ will work for hogs, but I think it's too tough for deer and would most likely pass right through.  Any of the thin-jacket varmint bullets are worthless with the exception of maybe the Hornady V-Max.  I agree with the above the 55gr Sierra is the minimum (and my preference because they're cheaper) and then look at the 60gr Nosler Partition or the Barnes if your barrel will stabilize them.  You'll be happy with the result. 

Understand I'm in Texas and we can hunt deer with any centerfire caliber and there are those that hunt deer and hogs with a .22 hornet, so the .223 is a significant step up.

[saltydog]

Check here for applicable game laws - I see no value to using a green tip for whitetails - ethical and practical issues regarding treatment of game are both raised. A 22 Hornet with a softpoint would be a better choice. You rifle should shoot up to 60 gr. with accuracy - you will have to keep the higher weight bullets at or near max velocity for stability.

[mannyrock]

  I am sorry, but I am stunned that anyone who calls himself a deer hunter would ask this question.  Are you new to deer hunting??

[Swampman]

I'm stunned that anyone considers the .223 a deer cartridge.

[jmayton]

Swampman, you probably used a 300WM to put your old dog down, didn't you?  Deer aren't that tough to kill. 

[Swampman]

I use a deer rifle.  The .30-06 is my favorite but the .270, .30-30, & .45-70 also see some time in the woods.  The 5.56 was designed to wound men.  It's parent was a varmint cartridge.

[S.S.]

We have found that the .223 is actually an excellent deer cartridge.
This is providing that a properly constructed bullet is used. A whitetail deer is not difficult
to put down with competent shot placement. My brothers Handi-rifle in 223 has proven itself
time and again. The older I get the more I enjoy being kicked less!

[teddy12b]

I was just wondering what you all thought about military 62gr green tip penetraor 556 for use on deer? Could it be an alternative to using a premium bullet since its designed for penetration at high velocities? Thanks

I think we can all agree that it wouldn't be our first choice.  However, if I was going to use it, I'd definately try to go through both shoulders with it and break the deer down or right in the head.  I don't think it'd be a good "behind the should" bullet.  If you had to use it, I don't doubt that it'd work especially considering a follow up shot or 29.  It wouldn't be my first choice, but if I have to feed my family, I wouldn't think twice about it.