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Author Topic: The so called flyer.  (Read 610 times)

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Offline grouse

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The so called flyer.
« on: June 12, 2009, 05:05:54 AM »
I saw on another thread about Flyers from a Muzzleloader.  I didn’t want to get that thread off track so I started a new one. Flyers are a statement often used in Muzzleloading .  I would like to address what I have found out about the so called flyer.
What causes a flyer?
1-   Poor/inconsistent bullet sabot fit to the bore.
2-   Heat
3-   Shooter error.

Let me start with no#1- If your loading pressure or sabot diameter is not consistent it will cause a flyer.  Example: If you shoot two shot’s and those bullets are fairly tight loading and all of a sudden the third bullet and sabot fall down the barrel. That will create a flyer. I don’t hunt with that load or do I shoot that at a target. I basically shoot that bullet out and reload.  I sure don’t want to have a flyer while hunting or developing a good load. I have really found this more so with MMP sabots then Harvester sabots. Harvester sabots imo have better plastic or polymer to with stand the extra heat at the range and in warmer tempatures.

No#2- Heat.  With Muzzleloaders the heat really varies with the loads you are shooting.  100grns of 777/BH209 doesn’t heat your barrel up as fast or take as long to cool off as shooting 120grns. But if you shoot to much of either load with out proper cooling you will get flyers. The sabots obviously get soft in the barrel. Which leads to inconsistent bullet to sabot to bore fit.  Usually two bullets real close and the third an inch or two or three away.

No#3- Shooter error. I think a lot of us like to blame the sabot or the powder with the so called flyer when it’s really us who make the mistake. I’m far from a shooter. I’m way more a hunter then a shooter. Getting hooked up with Lehigh mainly has created me to shoot a lot more then normal. I know when I have a flyer before I ever see the target. I know when I pulled the shot or took a shot that just wasn’t comfortable when I took it. You can’t take that shot back in a hunting situation. That I believe is what a lot of people call a flyer. Here it has nothing to do with the bullets, sabot,Gun or anything.

The point I’m getting at is I don’t get flyers unless I do something wrong. Shoot to fast and barrel heats up. Flinch or pull the shot. Poor sabot or bullet and don’t shoot it out or unload before shooting it at game or target. This is what I have found over the years and I hope it might help a few of you out in your situation.
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Offline flintlock

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Re: The so called flyer.
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 05:10:37 AM »
I would add failure to condition the bore each time...

Many want to shoot groups without cleaning and lubing between shots...In some situations hunting accuracy will be OK without cleaning between shots, but when working up a load I believe that cleaning and lubing between shot gives the best target accuracy...
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Offline DennyRoark

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Re: The so called flyer.
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2009, 08:45:37 AM »
Do you think that damage to the sabot petals while loading will cause them?  Also, I've been wondering if when I find a sabot with a torn off petal or two, can cause them as well.  Shooting the same charge with 200gr .45 SW's in my Knight Disc X-T, Had to pound the stock green sabots bown the barrel, the bullets were all over the place and noticed damaged and missing petals, same bullet with a Harvestor Crush Rib tightened up a lot and no damaged or missing petals.  What say ye, grouse...
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Offline AndyHass

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Re: The so called flyer.
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2009, 08:46:30 AM »
Heat heat heat.  You really need 5 full minutes minimum between firing and loading in the summer if you want maximum consistency.  If I really care about group size I don't bother if it's over 80-ish as the wait gets too long.

Torn off petals after firing means nothing.  By the time the petals tear off the bullet has long since separated.
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Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: The so called flyer.
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2009, 09:00:21 AM »
Shooter error is a pretty big factor, as you said many of us can call a flyer when the gun goes off. I would also say with a muzzleloader, the hardest variable to control besides the one pulling the trigger is the condition of the bore. In normal range conditions the bore condition will naturally deteriorate because it doesn't typically receive a full aggressive cleaning. I clean, then dry patch between shots, but no lube. It gets me to 1-1.5" groups and I guess I'm satisfied.
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