Author Topic: .405 Winchester (Read 1480 times)

bikered · « **on:** October 02, 2003, 03:30:47 PM »

I was down at my local shop and saw some .405 Winchester cases. They certainly look robust enough to send a 40-caliber pill downrange. Any feedback on this cartridge will be appreciated. Thanks, ED

Ray Newman · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2003, 05:18:38 PM »

The .405 Win was favoured by T Roosevelt.

I believe it was the most powerful rimmed White Powder (AKA smokeless powder) round designed for the M1895 Win lever gun.

If memory serves correctly, it utilized 300 grn bullet w/ a velocity of approx. 2100 FPS.

I would imagine that since it is WP round, the case walls are quite thick, which would limit the amt of BP a Shooter could put into the case.

bikered · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2003, 05:19:53 AM »

Ray,
Thanks for the reply. It sounds as though the .45-90+ may be the way to go for 'long range' applications. ED

Kodiak · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2003, 10:33:11 AM »

Bikered....
I started with a 40/65 highwall, went onto a 45/70 and finally setteled on the 45 x 2.4", some call it a 45/90. This is a versatile round. Works just fine on the steel targets and is more than enough for hunting most No. American big-game. I use BP in all loads and cast lead bullets. If I do my job on the bench, the rolling-block rifle will put 5 shots in 1.5" at 200 yds., with the open sights.
Works for me, :lol:

Kodiak

cooper · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2003, 11:17:37 AM »

The .405 Winchester is almost a 40/70 Sharps Straight. These days, the best way to get 40/70 Straight cases is to buy 405 Winchester, and trim them back 0.08" (the 40/70 Straight is 2.50" long, and the 405 Win. is 2.58" long). The only problem may be that the rim on the 405 might be a bit too thick or wide (depends on the chamber of your rifle).

I'm about ready to place an order for a Shiloh 40/70 Straight, and I think I'll first buy several hundred 405 Winchester brass, and ask Shiloh to chamber the rifle so that it will accept the unaltered rim of the 405 Winchester case.

Lead pot · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2003, 04:01:51 PM »

cooper.

I shoot the .40-70 Shiloh.I have the .405 cases,and you will have to work on the rim a little to have a good fit in the Shiloh,it's tight.I would suggest the drawn .30-40 case from Buffalo arms it's a good case with the proper fit.If you order ask for the Shiloh case,the C Sharp case is different but it will work in a pinch.

Lp.

cooper · « **Reply #6 on:** October 04, 2003, 06:33:38 AM »

Lead Pot, thanks for the info.

Do you mean that the Shiloh 40/70 chamber, and the C. Sharps 40/70 chamber, are different?

And if they are, then Buffalo Arms can supply cases sized for either? Are the Buffalo Arms cases full length (2.50")?

Lead pot · « **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2003, 03:03:23 PM »

cooper

I cant say for sure on "C" sharps chamber.I know the case head thickness is a little thinner.The Shiloh has a .068 head thickness.I have brass made for the "C" sharps,the head space is loose.
Yes I get my cases from Buffalo Arms,Just ask Skip or whoever is taking your order.They know there stuff.

Lp.

Clarence · « **Reply #8 on:** October 08, 2003, 03:32:32 PM »

There may be minor differences in the chamber dimensions, but as already explained, I believe C. Sharps and Steve Meacham chamber for an 0.060" rim (unaltered .30-40 Krag head. Buffalo Arms offers three rim thicknesses-0.060", 0.068", and 0.072" (original, I believe) by swaging the heads thicker. It works well-you just need to make sure you specify the right one for your rifle. You want the rim only 0.001-0.002" thinner than your rim recess so you don't experience case stretch and eventual splitting or separation.
I don't know about their current policy, but Shiloh would only chamber to 0.068" rims some years ago when I bought my .40-70 SS.

Clarence

Ted Kramer · « **Reply #9 on:** October 08, 2003, 03:51:10 PM »

My C. Sharps 40-70 uses a rim thickness of .068". I tried a few 405WCF cases but to get them to work the rims had to be brought down to .068" and were also a bit too large in diameter. Also, besides trimming to 2.5", the case necks are thicker and would have to be turned to be able to chamber with a .409" bullet seated. If you had your chamber made for them, I think they'd be good cases and might be easier to get consistant neck tension with than the stretched 30-40's. B.A. does a pretty good job making the Krag case into the 40-70ss, but you will have some variation in neck thickness, at least I do. Otherwise, I am pleased with the caliber and have no desire for any other. FWIW

Ted K

Clarence · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2003, 03:33:59 PM »

Ted, I suspect that a chamber as non-standard as 0.072" rim thickness, larger rim diameter, and larger throat to accomodate the .405 brass all say custom reamer. I don't think you'd get any manufacturer make those changes.

Shiloh chambers are reasonably tight, but I never had any problems with clearance with a 0.410" bullet, either in the Buffalo Arms or Bertram cases I used.

At the time, the Bertram cases were .405, thinned to 0.068" and then the primer pockets were deepened. I borrowed a lathe with a home-made collet for some of them, did some others in a cobbled setup on a drill press that produced chatter. They shot well but didn't look very pretty.

Clarence

sharps5090 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2003, 09:25:03 AM »

To All,
I have Shiloh 40-70ss and have used 405 win brass resized and trimmed with no problem. I didn't need to make any changes to the rim.
They work fine in my gun, anyway. In fact, I have an order in for 150 more cases.

Lead pot · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2003, 05:43:34 PM »

5090

what is the manufacture of that brass?I have Bertram brass that mesures .073 and I cant close the block with out turning them down to .068 in my Shiloh.Has anyone checked the Hornady .405 brass? and if so what does the head messure?

Lp.

sharps5090 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2003, 06:48:05 AM »

LP,
That was using Hornady .405 brass. I am at work and won't be home for a month or I could get you the rim size. I cam send you a few cases to try if you like. They work fine in my rifle.
Chris

Lead pot · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2003, 01:07:33 PM »

5090
Thanks for the offer Chris, but that wont be nessesarry I can find some.

Lp.

EDG · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2003, 03:12:06 PM »

The original chamber in a Remington Hepburn .40 2.5 SS was too tight in the neck for a groove size bullet in a modern case. Seems that the case necks would have been only .003 thick to work. This was a paper patch chamber according to the owner. The chamber neck was bored out with a tiny boring bar to give .004 clearance over a groove dia bullet seated in a 9.3 X74 R case. I think the rim was a little thin but the RWS brass was the best alternative at the time.
Ed