CARBINE 45acp AND 256wm Ballistics

[3leggedturtle]

Ordered a 45ACP 18" bull barrel from Fox Ridge 3 years ago. Have been shooting a Lee 255RFP with 9.4grs of HS7, it averages 1050FPS and  will do 2" group at 100 yards. WW 230gr Whitebox averages 870FPS. The 256 Win Mag is a 24"bull and with 86gr FP and 20.4 of H335 averages 2375PS. My first group at 100, all 3 shots were touching. At 200 they went into 3.5 inches. I have 3 Fox Ridge barrels and despite hearing bad things about there accuracy thay all bettr than I can hold.  These loads are safe in my carbine so be safe and star low.

[Antietamgw]

The .256 is a favorite cartridge that I don't own... Had a 10" barrel but swapped it and figured to build  a .256 on a Martini or get a Contender carbine barrel. Got  dies, chambering reamer, formed brass, suitable bullet molds but never got the carbine barrel. I shoot .25-20 and like everything about it except the (poor quality) brass. No brass problems with the .256. I guess I should sell something and order a barrel. Have you done anymore with your .256?

[Reed1911]

The best solution on the .25-20 brass issue I have found is to use Starline .32-20 brass, anneal, form and trim. Works wonders.

[Antietamgw]

You are certainly right about the Starline! I bought 500 as I shoot .32-20 in a couple Sav M/23's as well.  I had a fair number of neck creases reforming the Starline, even when annealing first, using RCBS .25-20 sizing or seating die. Seems it wasn't trimmed as smoothly as it could have been and those cases that were just slightly rough would crease immediately. Trimmed slightly, chamfered, annealed and lubed with Imperial or CFL was a bit better. Since I had plenty of Starline .32-20, thought I'd reform some WW .32-20 that had been shot with mild loads a dozen or more times. Annealed first, it reformed easily. I don't know how it will hold up as .25-20. I'm pretty sure the Starline will hold up very well - it's tough stuff! I've only loaded it twice so I don't know yet.  I should probably make up an intermediate die to get the shoulder started and necked to about 7MM first. I hate to lose brass while reforming, especially if I had to buy (and wait) for it. It's what I'll do for .25-20 but .256 sure is easier and cheaper. I don't really mind the extra work and the cost isn't really bad but the availability of brass of all types has me a little concerned. I have a pretty good supply of 38 and 357 brass thats been picked up off the range over the years and it's a little easier to dig into the bucket for a handful of brass to form than to dig into the wallet for a handful of cash to buy something.   I really do like these little cartridges

[Reed1911]

I anneal, run into a .30 sizer (to true it up), and then 7mm sizer, then 25 sizer, and then .25-20 FL die, case loss is very limited that way. If you are working on a single stage press, I'd simply run it into a 7mm, then the .25-20 seater die, then FL size it and load. You should not see much if any case loss that way and will cut out the .30 size which is pretty usless for most things, but it has cleaned up the cases with small burrs and drops outside and inside chamfering before the sizing is done.

[Antietamgw]

Thanks for the advice!  Think with sizing in steps you could get it down to .22 cal? I don't have a short 7MM die at the moment, just ran it over an M die and trimmed before annealing. I thought about cutting back a spare 7TCU die but decided against it. I shoot cast sized to .259 in my .25-20 and the formed Starline brass gives me a slip fit on a fired case. A bushing die would be nice and a couple larger bushings could take care of the forming troubles. Neck sized a couple thou with a bushing die should result in real good case life, especially since most of my loads are mild. Guess I'll have to dig in the wallet after all  What are you shooting in .25-20?

[Reed1911]

With the bushing dies I use I have them down to .10 caliber, that is the beauty of a> bushing dies, you just swap out the bushing and away you go and b> owning the shop and resources to do that stuff on a whim.
I've used several bushing dies from other folks and for 95% of any work that needs to be done they fit the bill, for some projects though it has been easier and less expensive to just chuck up a blank in the lathe and cut what I wanted. I do have a bunch of .14 Bee and .17 Bee that I've made on both .32-20 and .25-20 cases (as well as .218 bee) Makes it handy for doing one of's as well when lots of changes are expected. IIRC the better set I have from a commercial source is from Shade Tree Engineering, he should have two sets available now, one for sizing from about .338 to .20 and one from about .30 to .50. Now the larger one has a 1 1/4" body so it will not fit most common presses, but any that have a bushing in there should be 1 1/4" back to 7/8" (if you just scratched your head, you don't have the right press for the larger set).

Side note here for those that don't know, the .32-20 and .25-20 (just a necked down .32-20 case) are survival cases from the days of blackpowder. Later in life the .25-20 got necked to .22 and became the .218 Bee. And of course all the wildcats that followed from there on that little case.

In the .25-20 I usually limit myself to the 100g or less bullets since that is what my various guns like, and more often than not more the 85g, 75g, and 60g bullets. Lots and lots of 4227 and now some with the Trail Boss powder with the cast bullets.

[3leggedturtle]

I did things a little different, got a 223 extractor and spring from T/C. They wouldnt charge me for them. Got 150 221 FB brass and necked them up and trimmed them back.  Have bought 1000 Hornady 75gr HP's so need to load them up with both RL7 and H335 when i am done fireforming the rest of my cases. Started driving grain truck so am really busy right now. Hoping that I break 2500fps with 75gr's

[Reed1911]

Keep us updated on the progress of your rimless .25-20. I'm curious though, why did you choose to go rimless in the T/C? While there is certainly no real issue with rimless cases with a sprung extractor, when pressures get to the high side it sometimes take more than one try to extract the case.

[Antietamgw]

Reed1911,
Thanks for the info on the bushing dies. I have a lathe and mill as well and like to cobble up my own stuff too. I had envisioned making up a die body that would accept a Redding type bushing. I like the Shade Tree design, bushing appears a bit longer than others. Hardening and polishing a bushing ought to be easier than an entire die. Easier is good.

[Reed1911]

To be honest, if you use stainless, you should not need to harden it. Not for just necking. Heck some of mine have upwards of 5000 passes and no issues to date. I polished them well, but be careful not to polish them too much, if you do you'll create too much surface contact and stick them even with lube. No need here for a mirror polish, just a good smooth surface will work great and it is again less work in the long run. I'm not sure on the dimensions of the Redding bushings, but I used 3/4" round, center prick, and cut to .0002 (-) of final, and polished to final. Works great. Just remember that some cases like the little hornet will need a smaller hole for a given size due to thinner neck thickness.