Author Topic: Artillery accident (Read 1009 times)

Cannoneer · « **on:** August 11, 2009, 09:34:25 PM »

I know that the howitzer involved in this accident doesn't fall within the prescribed timeline of the artillery that we normally discuss here, but I thought I'd post it as a reminder to all of us, to always try and keep our concentration focused on safety when we're out there enjoying our hobby.

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dan610324 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2009, 10:20:54 PM »

nice video , but a nasty accident
it sure give all of us something to think about

as I always say "better safe then sorry"

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2009, 11:10:26 PM »

I wonder where the ramrod went. A person can never be too careful.

Victor3 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2009, 12:02:35 AM »

Said he lost two fingers from his right hand. He was 20 years old and had been in the Army for ~6 months. Man in the suit (local Army commander) indicated he figures it might have been due to lack of the soldier's experience.

Since Boom J went a little off-topic, and being as we're on safety here, I thought I'd post this public service video compilation. Note that the clips are shown on regular TV in various countries and are not real accidents, so I hope it's okay to post. Substitute antique black powder cannons for cars, or think about driving to a cannon shoot.

Slightly graphic, but no worse than the old "Red Asphalt" or "Signal 30" movies shown in high school driver's training. Made me think a bit.

Absolutely no crying allowed while watching (unless nobody sees).

http://www.snotr.com/video/2758

KABAR2 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2009, 01:07:21 AM »

O.K. I think this unit needs to rethink their Loading procedure, reguardless of experiance or the lack there of the entire crew is at fault.

1 you have a breech loading cannon with a shield because of this parts of the crew can not see each other to know what the others are doing.

2 because of lack of vision it is easy for things to get out of sequence as the man dislodging the UNfired case discovered.

3 speed these guys are firing salutes as fast as they could this is part of the problem.

4 get cannons that do not need to be manually rammed to remove a blank cartridge case.

5 remove shields from cannon so the crew can see everyone involved with the firing of the gun.

6 have emergency procedures in place in case there is an accident, the crews seem to continue to go about their business even with a man down.
I don't agree with "the show must go on" mentality in a situation like this.

RocklockI · « **Reply #5 on:** August 12, 2009, 04:48:23 AM »

at the end they showed a large window high on a building blown out from the ramrod.

then boneheads keep shooting , at least twice . then they blame the victim .....

i'm thinking they need a new commander .

BoomLover · « **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2009, 05:52:16 AM »

I agree with both KARBAR2 and Rocklockl, this was a preventable accident, and they need to go back to square 1 and re-think their procedures. A new commander would be a plus, while this guy goes back for more training himself! Just my 2 cents worth... BoomLover

subdjoe · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2009, 08:17:06 AM »

In my humble opinion, safety is never off topic. This looks like there were several break downs in communication. The guy on the front didn't know what was going on in the back. The guys in the back had no idea what was going on in front. And the Chief of Piece WAS FREAKIN' ALSEEP! He is the one in control of that gun. He needs a few days bucked and gagged to give him time to think it over. He obiously did not have his crew properly trained.

At reenactments when I am drilling my crew I will sometimes mix up the commands on purpose. I tell people over and over that we are all responsible for safety and anyone can call, WAIT or DON'T or HOLD at any time if they see, or feel, that something is wrong and unsafe. So I might, in drill without cartridge, call "WORM" after "Prick & Prime" and hope to God I get a "WHAT?!?! WAIT! THAT'S WRONG!"

Or maybe call "Fire" before I call "Ready! Clear front!"(our signal for the cannoneers to step away from the piece and cover their ears. They are supposed to echo it back to let the person on the lanyard know that everyone is clear of the piece and it is safe to fire). I would rather have the gun not fire because #4 didn't hear everyone say Clear, than to have the gun fired when people are not ready. Awareness, awareness, awareness.

briarpatch · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2009, 03:03:11 PM »

Any time you are in a place where they fence off the hospital, you can expect things like this. There is no guidence on anything.

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2009, 03:16:32 PM »

I'm tempted to post this over on the muzzloading board in response to the post saying cannon shooting should only be done by professionals....

KABAR2 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2009, 03:32:11 PM »

DD,

Oh can I?

Please?

Pretty please!

You know I'll have some fun with this one.....

RocklockI · « **Reply #11 on:** August 12, 2009, 03:48:55 PM »

DD thats a good idea , rub some salt into his wound !

that ignorant fool needs a lesson and this might just be one .

what board was that agian .... and user name .....?

cannonmn · « **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2009, 04:07:28 PM »

Whether you are ramming the charge in a muzzle-loader or banging out stuck cases in a breechloader, a shepherd's crook ramrod is a good idea. We use them whenever possible. I make them out of metal tubing so it will slip through the hands and not catch like a wooden one might. There's never anyone downrange where we shoot so a launched rammer wouldn't hurt anyone that way.

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** August 12, 2009, 04:08:41 PM »

Quote from: KABAR2 on August 12, 2009, 03:32:11 PM

DD,

Oh can I?

Please?

Pretty please!

You know I'll have some fun with this one.....

I double dog dare you!!!

RocklockI · « **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2009, 04:13:45 PM »

give me the info ,,,, i will take the double dare , and raise you , to a tripple dog dare ,you to tell me the info .......well problem solved

cannonmn · « **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2009, 04:23:06 PM »

Exactly what country is that, anyone figure out for sure?

Double D · « **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2009, 04:42:26 PM »

Peru!!!

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2009, 04:44:32 PM »

Gary,

After Allen posts it, I'll tell you, it's his post to start with.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 12, 2009, 05:29:08 PM »

Post added..... I hope I didn't come across like I was flaming someone

KABAR2 out......

Double D · « **Reply #19 on:** August 12, 2009, 06:22:44 PM »

You are much nicer than I am.

I would have posted it in original thread with a statement like "here's how the professionals do it"

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/236968/post/new/#NEW

Victor3 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 12, 2009, 11:59:11 PM »

Over the years I've spoken to many Central and South American guys about their military training. Some countries clearly value a quick 'leathering up' of recruits over safety. You can kind of see that in the officer's flippant attitude about the incident.

The Peruvians I've known spoke of a very tough row to hoe during their stint in the Army.