Do it yourself laminate?

[DsrtRat]

Anyone here know the steps to building a laminate stock? I have buit custom stocks for a crossbows in the past but they came from already put together laminate. Does anyone know or have a website that explains the process of building the laminate blockto be cut? (ie the staining, gluing and drying etc...)

[LONGTOM]

I can't explain all the steps to making a gun stock but being a part time wood worker I have done laminates for other projects.
I did make a laminate blank for a friend who latter had it made into a stock.
We started with a solid air dried piece of walnut stock about 4" wide by 10'' tall and 42" long.
Moisture content was about 8%.
I ran it through my band saw at 3/16" intervals until we were done making sure to keep them in the order they were cut.
Then I ran them over a 10" jointer on one side to smooth the saw marks, still keeping them in the order they were cut from the blank.
Next I ran them through a surface planer to smooth the other side.
These two processes removed about 1/32" from each side which left us with slabs of 1/8" thickness.
Next I glued them all back together just as they were cut using ELMERS CLEAR water proof glue with a 2" thick by 11" wide cull on each side along with about 24 large C-clamps and let them dry for two days at around 80 degrees.
After I removed the clamps and culls I again ran the edge across the jointer to true up the two remaining edges.
With a little mineral spirits to bring out the grain it really was hard to see the laminate lines where they were glued together.
It almost looked like a solid piece of walnut again.
I did get to see the finished stock after it was done.
With a rich finish of tung-oil hand rubbed it had a nice glow but didn't look shiny like a sprayed on finish.
Along with the checkering and the bone forearm tip and grip cap with a couple of diamond inlays it really was quit stunning and you didn't even know it was a laminate!
Wish I had it on one of my guns.
Who ever finished the stock really did a fine job.

Hope this gives you some ideas.
Keep us informed and show us some pics as work progresses.


LONGTOM

[Graybeard]

That is NOT the way laminated stocks are supposed to be made. First you alternate layers not put them back as they came from the wood so each piece counter acts the tendency of those next to it to twist or bend. Next you don't use Elmer's. They are laminated with epoxy resin under both heat and pressure to force the resin into the pores of the wood.

I suggest you forget the idea of laminating your own and just buy a properly laminated blank to work from.

[LONGTOM]

Sorry GB but I beg to differ.
Some may do it that way but then the layers show.
There is a prominet company making stocks that does it the way I described without the use of heat.
That is where I got the info on doing it.
This is not kiln dried or wet wood.
This wood was air dried for 16 years in my barn up next to the tin roof.
I do know they don't use elmers but they said it would work and it has been 9 years and so far all is fine.
I have been in wood working long enough to know that if proper glue coverage is applied that the wood will not warp.
Not on that many layers.
A lot of the laminated bows have been done that way and without heat.


LONGTOM

[bilmac]

I thought the purpose of laminating is to break up the grain patterns of solid stocks so changes in humidity don't cause the stock to distort. I don't see how gluing it back together exactly the same way would help that much. I would have at least have reversed every other layer, but better yet ,from a purely functional standpoint sandwiched in a different wood altogather.   Oh- plywood stocks.

[LONGTOM]

Thank you bilmac.
Your comment caused me to go back and reread my post which showed that I left that part out.
I did swap every other layer end for end.
When I stated that I put them back just as they were cut I was referring to not getting the layers mixed as in putting say #4 layer where #2 was.
I see what GB was referring to now.
Sorry for the confuseion.
Also to clear up another point.
ELMERS make many different grades of glue.
I agree that the use of resins and heat would most likely end up with a better product, and I am sure that is probably the way the bigger company's do it but it will work the way I stated also.
There has been an awful lot of laminated wood products made over the years that are still in fine shape today without the use of heat.
Maybe if I would have had access to the kind of equipment they have I may have done it that way also.
Not sure as I have never really worked with resins all that much.



LONGTOM

[Drilling Man]

  I know this is an OLD thread, but i thought i'd throw an answer out here anyway...

  I made a few laminated blanks many years ago.  I bandsawed different woods into about 1/4" thick strips, running them over the jointer and then through the planer to clean the strips up.  Then i made blanks, alternateing what ever i wanted, using expoxy from a boat building place for the glue, then clamping the strips together for each blank.  After the epoxy dried, i cleaned all the edges up, cutting the blanks to the dimentions i wanted.  I sold several of them, and the buyers put them on rifles.  They looked very good, and everyone was happy.

  I want to comment on cutting wood apart in thin strips and glueing them back together in the same order they came apart...  I've done that too, and it does work...  Why does it work?  It works because when you cut the thin layers apart, you've cut the fibers between the layers, and those fibers are what would have  made the wood warp.  With glue between the layers, it makes the wood more stable.  BUT, personally, i'd use some kind of epoxy for the glue...

  DM

[Frank46]

I'm no expert on adhesives but I think there is a two part epoxy glue out there that I used years ago to do some alterations on a 40x stock. I needed to plug the mortise that was cut into the forend for the handstop rail. i cut the walnut with a regular saw then planed it down some more and sanded to fit. The glue was a resin and powder mix that ended up red in color. Waterproof and very strong. Painted the mortise and clamped the walnut strip in place overnight. Finished the planeing and sanding to get it flush with the forend. 15 years later has not moved. Unfortunately I don't remember the name
(CRS) but there should be some better epoxy glues out there since I did the work 15 years ago. Frank

[anweis]

That is NOT the way laminated stocks are supposed to be made. First you alternate layers not put them back as they came from the wood so each piece counter acts the tendency of those next to it to twist or bend. Next you don't use Elmer's. They are laminated with epoxy resin under both heat and pressure to force the resin into the pores of the wood.

I suggest you forget the idea of laminating your own and just buy a properly laminated blank to work from.

They were making bows from laminated wood in China well over a thousand years ago. The Mongols and the Huns had mastered the technique of making laminated wood for different purposes and for bows. They used to laminate wood and bone or antler with glue made from bone to make incredibly powerful bows. I saw an archery competition in which archers riding fast on horseback shot at moving targets 50-150 yards away. They hit the target more than half of the time. The bows were about 25" from tip to tip. 

Making a laminated gun stock can certainly be a high tech process, but it does not have to. Well cut (smooth and straight) strips of wood, good wood glue, and a press is all that is needed. Epoxy or other glues may work, but they shrink when they cure, and may bend the wood a bit.  I think that it is also important how the wood is cured before lamination. It probably needs to be stable before laminating.

[fr3db3ar]

If you search rimfirecentral.com you'll find a guy who made a laminate stock from epoxy and denim.  Yes  denim, as in jeans material.

Actually looked kinda cool.

Just remember...when laminating...don't restrict your thinking to only wood.