Author Topic: Sabots (Read 1285 times)

dynomike · « **on:** August 24, 2009, 07:47:06 AM »

I hate to ask this but i missed the session on sabots. I have dailup and it would take forever to find it. What is the perfered windage with a sabot if any?

RocklockI · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2009, 08:10:25 AM »

i have found them to be very helpfull . mine are turned from poplur .

my balls have the proper windage .......the sabots however were turned to fit with min. clearance .

the sabot is larger OD than the ball . the ball never touches the bore . the sabot of course pretty well disinigrates ,and the balls fly true...ish....proly due to aimming errors on my part most of the time......

i wouldnt shoot my steel balls with out them .

golf balls .......never mind as i havent figured them out yet ....

thelionspaw · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2009, 09:05:24 AM »

Rocklock: Any particular reason for using Poplar? Just because it's available to you? Some where I am, call it, "Popple". It's not much different from Basswood in density.

Dynomike: Just type-in sabot in the blank search space at the top of the page.

rc

RocklockI · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2009, 12:54:14 PM »

because it was a seacoast approved wood !

also easy to get , but 1.75 -2.0 " thickness can be hard to find sometimes . then rip it into turning squares .

never heard it described that way , poople . i know knothing of basswood ?

i would not use a dowel rod unless it's for a smaller cannon . the popple .( youre serious...? popple ?)

i like popple better ...... next time i buy some i'm going to buy popple wood .

you say a popple and i say a poplar .......

thelionspaw · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2009, 02:10:56 PM »

http://www.4peaks.com/fkhint11a.htm

I would have also said "Quaking Aspen" which is the name I grew up with but rural folk in my mountains and the upper mid-west say "Popple". It's also called "White Wood" but I don't carve it because it often has a green tinge and runs of brown. Basswood in my opinion, carves better.

See? I'm a decoy carver and sculptor of sorts. I have pieces in some interesting places. You would be amazed. If you cannot easily get POPLAR

, ask for Basswood. You wouldn't know the difference. It might be easier to come by. Most of the good carvers I know, use it. I have a bin full of it and I'm no longer accepting commissions.

Here, poplar is a trash wood that has no value, so people are always asking me if I want it for the taking. NOPE! It burns a tad better than church yard moss.

I'll have to ask the boys why poplar is on their approved list.

rc

GGaskill · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2009, 02:21:14 PM »

Why don't you use plywood (plies perpendicular to the bore axis) for the sabots? You might have to glue several layers together to get the thickness you want but that's no big deal; it's glued together already. If your current sabots have the grain going parallel to the bore axis, I can see why they are splitting.

thelionspaw · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2009, 02:39:10 PM »

Probably because he may find it easier to turn down a piece of square stock on a lathe and cut discs from it with a table saw or mitre saw; rather than cut plywood into squares and then band saw them into discs??? I would.

rc

GGaskill · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2009, 02:58:33 PM »

How about cutting them with a holesaw and plugging the pilot hole?

KABAR2 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2009, 03:13:10 PM »

I have found it to be a fairly stable wood in certain applications I have made wood molds for molding plastic items and it works

very well, one of the larger molds ( 4" thick sections glued together on top of one another) has to be dunked in water to cool the plastic part,

I gave it several layers of paint to seal the wood, so far no separation or warping and the mold has been in service almost a year.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:42:32 PM »

I've been making mine lately out of common Home Depot or Lowes 2x4's.... just cut out with a hole saw that has no pilot drill in it. Works well on my 1950's vintage Craftsman Drill Press. As luck would have it they come out the right diameter for my golfball caliber half-scale Napoleon. No need to lathe turn any smaller. Just use a spade bit to cut a recess for the ball to fit in and secure with silicone caulking. Been working for me well but your experience may vary.

RocklockI · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:50:13 PM »

the answer is to most of the above is ......popplar was a wood that was used , from now on i will ask for basswood .....what the heck , live and learn .

AND i dont want anything to do with plywood sabots ...are you guys kiddin me ..NO not my style .......

i like historical ...somewhat accurate ammo , cannons too , just how it is ....sorry

now historical accuracy isnt a big deal if you are making quills ..like me ? but honestly i would have nothing to do with plywood disks stacked up with center holes sawed in them .

as far as my sabots disinegrating

i believe that , that is what was hoped by the designers ,that is what would/should happen . honestly i dont really think they were designed to do anything other

than ...make ....absolute .....friggin sure ......that fuse was UP . but what do i know ?

i really have no clue if they used it for accuracy , but i do .

maybe basswood wont disinigrate ......popple wood ......

i would much rather turn a softish hardwood than mess with any ....plywood .

now i gotta go make sure popplewood was on ... , the approved wood list .

regardless my 'tart' is confederate and they used 'popplewood' for sure ......thats my story , and .....

Victor3 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2009, 12:52:41 AM »

There is this stuff if you decided to compromise

http://www.woodnshop.com/Hardwood/POPLAR_Plywood.htm

BoomLover · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2009, 04:57:37 AM »

Poplar, Quaking Aspen, Basswood, out here on the West (Best) (subjective opinion!) Coast, we have Alder, another that is considered a "trash wood", soft enough to be cut into sabots, and probably disintergrate pretty much when fired. BoomLover

RocklockI · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2009, 06:13:44 AM »

i always thought quaking aspen meant they were blowing in the wind with the leaves sort of twinkling between yellow an green / white of the trunk ....

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2009, 07:21:24 AM »

Gentlemen, gentlemen, so many ideas, so little of the shooting season left to test them out in the northern climes. Maybe we can agree on one thing. That is, the concept of a probable and desirable disintegrating sabot. For those of you who may believe that a securely attached sabot which stays intact is desirable, think about the forces involved. Do you really believe that a wooden sabot for a solid shot or shell would stay intact beyond the gun's muzzle, if a stand of grape held together by a 5/8" bolt and two iron end plates was routinely and properly torn apart by the muzzle blast, thereby releasing the nine, heavy iron shot to disrupt and tear apart the enemy and his equipment?

Absolute disintegration of the sabot was ideal and the favorite sabot of all time is definitely the paper-mache sabot on the Federal Schenkl shells and bolts which turned to confetti at the cannon's muzzle! Infantrymen really appreciated that style of sabot simply because it would not kill them if fired over their heads!

As to the type of wood to be used; who cares? Poplar was the traditionally used wood during the Civil War, but any other easily machined wood would certainly work. Alder, Quaking Aspen and Basswood would probably all work equally well. Pine too, just make sure the end grain is pointing toward the muzzle to facilitate disassembly at the muzzle. Today we call this principle AD, Active Disassembly a desired trait for products to have at their "end-of-life" to facilitate recycling or disposal.

Just our thoughts on the matter,

Mike and Tracy

dynomike · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2009, 07:42:07 AM »

So if thats the case dowel rod would work.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2009, 07:53:09 AM »

Yes.

T&M

thelionspaw · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2009, 08:08:46 AM »

I concur with M&T. I cannot imagine a wooden sabot burning-up upon discharge. That's why, in an obtuse/nice way, I wrote that poplar burns little better than church yard moss.

The 18th c. sabot as described in BRITISH ARTILLERY AMMUNITION 1780 by Adrian B. Caruana as follows: "The purpose of the wooden bottom, which in the case of round shot was attached by two tin straps,.........; it partially prevented the escape of the gas produced by the burning of the propellant as it fitted the cylinder better than the projectile, thereby producing a higher muzzle velocity; and by being attached to the projectile it provided a degree of stability on discharge. The wad merely performed the former service".

I carry one for static display.

Double D · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2009, 05:28:57 PM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on August 25, 2009, 07:21:24 AM

Gentlemen, gentlemen, so many ideas, so little of the shooting season left to test them out in the northern climes. Mike and Tracy

Are you guys down south in the desert coming to Montana again?

Here's one post on how I made sabots. http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,178482.0.html

I only found one of my sabots after the shoot, it was for the most part intact. I used a drop of Elmers glue in the bottom of cup to hold the ball. Some of the balls came loose rolling around in my ammo box.

dynomike · « **Reply #19 on:** August 28, 2009, 03:36:39 AM »

Are you using 2 drops of glue or are you trying something else?

Evil Dog · « **Reply #20 on:** August 28, 2009, 03:55:00 AM »

I've found a tube of silicone sealer works fine for me.

Double D · « **Reply #21 on:** August 28, 2009, 07:56:13 AM »

one drop of Elmers! Some drops were bigger than others.

Alangaq · « **Reply #22 on:** August 28, 2009, 04:00:08 PM »

I took these photos at Fort Stanwix near Rome NY. I believe them to be reproductions, but they appear to be very well done none the less. Perhaps they will be of some use in sabot design.

dynomike · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2009, 12:14:07 PM »

I finley got my barrel micked all the way through. It measured out to 2.325" at the narrowest point. We have turned out sabots from 2.312 to 3.318 X 2.5". We will try them Sunday.

RocklockI · « **Reply #24 on:** September 02, 2009, 12:44:18 PM »

i have only one suggestion , and i should have mentioned it b4 .

if you make the sabots vey much more than @ 1.720 they can swell as i found out myself , not going down the bore .

they still ride the bore rather than the ball .

RocklockI · « **Reply #25 on:** September 02, 2009, 12:46:53 PM »

as i obviously did not catch the posters bore .....NEVER mind

.

but too little 'windage' can probably swell for you too ......thats my out ...

dan610324 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 02, 2009, 03:22:12 PM »

how about drying the wood before turning in the kitchen owen at 100 degrees celsius (water boiling temp)
let them be there for 24 hours or so
take them out imediately before turning , and seal them with a thin layer of paint as soon as they are finished, if properly sealed there wouldnt be any posibility for them to accumulate any moist from the air .

GGaskill · « **Reply #27 on:** September 02, 2009, 03:46:08 PM »

If properly sealed, there wouldnt be any possibility for them to accumulate any moisture from the air.

Tests using gunstock woods have shown that superficial coatings only slow down the exchange of moisture between a stock and the atmosphere.

dan610324 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 03, 2009, 01:22:48 AM »

slow down how much ??
maybe enough for this purpose ??

thelionspaw · « **Reply #29 on:** September 03, 2009, 03:20:27 PM »

You can do it in your microwave in a matter of minutes but watch-out for resinous wood. Basswood, POPPLE

, Pine, Oak are fine.

rc