Free Floating- Model 7 Stock- Advice?

[smoky]

I am re-installing the original youth stock that came on a model seven.  My question is in regards to free floating.

In the barrel channel, there are a couple of contact points that I believe are purposely "milled" as part of this wood stock (factory).

In bedding this rifle, should we use the barrel channel tool/dremel and free float this stock, or will this possibly ruin accuracy.

Opinions and advice welcomed.

Thanks,

Smoky

[flintlock]

They are there to help stiffen the barrel...I'd leave them alone until you know how she is going to shoot...I had a buddy remove his on a .260 and free floated and this made the groups worse...The Model 7 has a thinner barrel and free floating will make it whip more at the shot...

[gunnut69]

Barrels vibrate as when they are fired. The more consistant and the greater the frequency of the vibration the better the accuracy. Frequency can be raised by making the barrel shorter or stiffer(thicker i.e. a bull barrel). Another way to alter the vibration frequency is to pre-load the barrel by applying tension. That's the reason for the 2 small humps in the Remington's inletting. The barrel lies between them and as the action screws are tightened pressure(or preload) is applied. Depending on the barrel's weight, length etc the pressure points should move for best results but the Remington's tend to be OK and MOST I've tried shoot best with the pressure points left. There are drawbacks of course, as there always are. Wood stocks move as the moisture content changes and any wovement can affect the point of impact of the group. As a rule try the rifle before making changes(see-if it ain't broke, don't fix it). In a big game rifle used at sane distances it is rarely a problem, shooting varmits can be a problem. The wood can also make a difference. I once had an early 788 in 243 that was a tackdriver but shot to a different point of aim each weekend(the times for my ground hog forays). I glass bedded the rifle full length and movement stopped or at least slowed significantly.. Seal the wood to retard moisture absorbtion and shoot the rifle before making any draastic changes.. As a note the thinner the barrel the more noticeable the change the pressure points make and Remington doesn't put pressure points in it's heavy barreled 'varmit' rifles..

[Nobade]

I find the best results with those rifles usually comes from bedding the action and the barrel under the chamber, leaving the pressure pads in place. Then once the epoxy is cured, cut the pads out and you usually have about the right amount of float. Of course don't tighten the screws any more than just barely snug when you bed, or you've defeated the point. I then remove forend material until a fairly hard smack on it with the heel of my hand doesn't allow it to hit the barrel. Inletting black is your friend here. At this point, it should group as well as it's going to be capable of, and should not change due to weather. On the Mod 7, you can use a front pillar if you like, but there's no room for a rear one so just use epoxy there.

[burntmuch]

Just this year I picked up a barely used model 7 in 7mm-08. Sweet little rifle. The previous owner floated the barrel. I tried a few loads with it. 3 different powders, 3 different bullets. Couldnt get it to group under 2 inches. To be honest Im a fairly new reloader. & I was running out of primers. So I was getting pretty frustrated. Got some advice here. That 18 inch thin little barrel needed a preasure point at the tip of the forend. I took 1/2 inch square of duct tape. doubled up & put it under the barrel at the tip of forend. My groups went to right at or just over an inch. Another thing is I noticed my 3rd would be a flyer. I had to let that barrel cool a bit after each shot.

[Nobade]

That's not surprising. Normally if you freefloat a barrel without epoxy bedding the receiver and under the chamber, the rifle will shoot worse. Those pressure pads are put into the stocks for a reason. You also must make sure there is enough float, and the forend isn't going to hit the barrel when the rifle is fired. If it does, accuracy will be very poor.

[gunnut69]

The pressure points bigest disadvantage is the wood stocks movement that can cause zeros to move.  Barrel contact is not always a bad thing.. As long as its a constant. Some of the old world sporters by mauser and others were full length bedded and shot just fine, even some of the mannlicher stocked guns. Glass bedding is almost always a good bet on modern guns as QC has really taken a beating but if the pressure points are not removed before the action bedding it is hard to get the bedding straight as you are fighting the pressure of the barrel.  Pillars are used to stabilize the stock to action fit and aviod crush from the constant strain of the action screws and the pounding of recoil. the easiest process is to bed the action with the pressure points removed and replace them if the accuracy fails to meet expectations.. Also you can't really expect a pencil barreled carbine to stand for a zero point of impact shift under the heat of sustained fire, and it's not really needed. The zero not shifting as the woods moisture content changes can be more of a problem.. That old 788 I had used sycamore as a stock wood. That wood is a fairly good choice. It is nearly unsplittable and tensile strength is excellant. Unfortunately it is a bit heavy and is very absorbative.. Dad always said sycamore boards will turn over if laid on the ground thru the seasons, twisting ionto a snakelike attitude, he was of course stretching the truth,,,,at least a bit.

[Nobade]

The reason I bed them with the pressure pads in place is that will center the barrel in the channel, and set it to the right height. Most modern stocks will have the barrel well below of center if the pads are removed before bedding. Of course you can use thick tape to put the barrel back up where it belongs, but if you just leave the pads you don't have to. In addition, if you bed the barrel too low in the stock you'll have to remove way too much wood to get a proper float on it. Then the forend gets too thin and the whole thing looks bad. But of course all this depends on the stock design and how it's inletted from the factory. And as I said above, you don't want to tighten the screws enough to preload the action if the pads are in place. The idea is to remove stress from the assembly, not induce more.

[gunnut69]

Amen on no stress.. I just shipped over the don't tighten fully'. I use tape to center and adjust the barrel's position before bedding the action.. Actually I like the bedding to be where I want it before the glass is installed. By freeing the barrel from the pressure pads, centering it with tape and letting it set on a guide screw in the rear hole the action is totally stress free and the glass is where it needs to be.. If the weapon doesn't shoot as well as I want it to I reinstall the pressure pads by shimming the barrel up with tape on the bottom of the barrel channel and a tape wrap to keep it centered. The pads are poured between the pads in the bottom of the channel and the centering tape.. Glass held in place with a tiny roll of non-drying modeling clay, on both front and back. I've also found that many Remingtons that shoot less than stellar groups can be rejuvenated by recutting the crown. Don't shorten the tube just recut the crown the least bit.. I use a piloted handheld tool for the purpose. I bought a M7 in 7-08 a couple of years ago for a project. I've a propsective son-in-law that needs a custom rifle..before I can no longer do the work.. It gets harder all the time..

[mannyrock]

   With all respect, I feel that you are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.  You are planning to change the bedding on your barrel to a free-float, without even having fired the rifle?

   As you know, the Model 7 is primarily a hunting carbine, not a target rifle.  Most of them will consistently group 1.5 inches out of the box, and that is more than accurate enough for their purpose.

    Once you do a home-made free-float job, you have gone down a road that may lead to nothing but aggravation and expense.   That pencil thin barrel, which makes the rifle wonderfully lightweight, wasn't designed to be a an MOA or sub MOA rig.

Regards,

Mannyrock

[gunnut69]

You are of course absolutely correct but the question didn't concern should this be done, just the premise was that what if I did this. the second poster advised that test firing was always a good idea and reinforced the fact that this is a hunting rifle, not a target shooter.. Still many don't consider tinkering with a rifle is not agrevation but enjoyable.. I've fooled with guns for the last 45 ply years and am still intreged.  Your comments are however well taken and since the poster siad re-installing, I assumed it had been there before and he would like some improvement..and he did ask for 'opinions and advise' , what can you expect!!

[Mckie Hollow]

I have a CDL 350mag. that did not shoot to my expectations. So I did as always - Stress free bedded the action, then sanded out the pressure points with the right size long bolt socket. Sealed the sanded area. It now can shoot about 1-1/4". This does not always work, but it doesn't take much to put pressure points back in, after a proper bedding & free floating.