Primers....probably a stupid question

[buckbeast]

Hi Guys,
I have been reloading a little over a year now (still a newbe) and have only used Winchester primers as that is what the book says for what I am loading. However, like everyone else, I am starting to feel the pinch in finding new primers. Is there any real difference between Winchester, CCI, & Federal when it comes to primers and in load development? I can't seem to find the Winchester's in either small or large rifle anywhere around here right now, but I found a local shop that has tons of CCI & Federal at $39.50/1000. Just wanted to ask, before I invested in something I may not be able to use.

Thanks in advance,
Buck

[kynardsj]

I use whatever I can find with no difference in how the cartridge shoots. As long at they're standard and not magnum primers they should shoot the same. I have heard that Federal primers were harder than others. CCI should do as well as Winchester.

[Lone Star]

Unfortunately the above comments go completely against my 40 years reloading experience - sometimes.  Sometimes substituting a different brand makes little difference, but other times group size can double.  The first time this happed to me years ago i didn't believe it, I had to have used a different powder charge or something.  Nope, I loaded up ten rounds with one primer and another ten with the other brand - everything else was identical.  Two 5-shot groups each later, the first primer shot 1 moa groups, the other brand 1.75 moa.  Strange but true.  Too, it is well documented that changing primer brand can change pressures by up to 5000 psi, dicey in a max load.

Bottom line, you will have to check the results when you change primers.  To assume there will be no difference invites "disaster".


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[BBF]

I'm with Lone Star on that.  If you do find a marked difference in changing the primers you could change your powder load a bit and see if things come back to the "sweet spot"

[Val]

In three different calibers where I developed the load with CCI 200 primers I also use Winchester primers. In every case I reduced the powder load and have worked back up and ended at the same powder charge. I would recommend this procedure for the reasons that Lone Star pointed out. If you begin load development with a different primer than called out in your book, that's not a problem.

[huntswithdogs]

When ya go to changing stuff around, it's always a good practice to start over with your load. Like others have said, things can change and QUICK!

Back off of your normal load and start working back up.


HWD

[LaOtto222]

When ever you change a reloading component, you need to re develop, period. With that said i personally do not like Federal Primers, but If that is all I could get, I would. My understanding is the Winchester and Federals have thinner (softer) cups than CCI or Remington, but it depends on what type you are talking about. I do know that in Small Rifle the Remington 7 1/2 and CCI BR4 have about the thickest cups on the common market. I have not found having a thick cup has been a problem in my guns, in fact I prefer them.

[huntducks]

This comes from my experience and my experience only, been loading R&P since 1964

I have found that changing primers can and will change your loads accuracy.

I very seldom load for max FPS i'm usually a few grains under max 80% of the time, and I load for 22 different calibers accuracy is what i'm trying to get, all my rifles are hunting guns.

I would say that Fed. primers are used the most fallowed by Rem. then Win. with CCI bringing up the rear, I have never had a problem with any of the so called soft cups in a bolt action rifle.

I first exhaust my Std. primers in working up a load then I will switch over to Mag primers I might drop down 1 or so grains of powder when switching from Std. to Mag. just depends on how it feels type of action and bolt lift.

I don't like pushing to max unless it's needed to increase accuracy and i'm not talking 1/4" if it changes a 2" gun to 1" i'm  pleased.

[teddy12b]

I have been reloading since about 2002 and I still consider myself to be a complete rookie.  When I started I wanted to keep everything as simple as possible so I just randomly picked a brand for everything and stuck with it.  I used Remington brass for everything, and Remington primers for everything.  Recently because of the shortage I tried some Winchester primers with my standard loads in my 30-06.  I didn't redevelop the load, and it sounds like I should have. 

I did find a big difference in primers with regard to the pressure signs.  The remington primers at that my match load wouldn't show the slightest sign of a flat primer.  The winchester primed loads had noticably flat primers.  This is valuable information for me because Winchester primers tell you when you are approaching danger and the Remington primers don't.  I value that information and will be using winchester primers (and redeveloping my loads) from here on out.

[buckbeast]

Gentlemen, thanks for the replies. It gives me a lot to think about. I don't load anywhere near max, but I have a couple of real accurate loads already worked up for my rifles and really don't want to start over. I'll find some Winchesters somewhere, the primer shortage can't last forever!

Buck

[SHOOTALL]

If you decide to use a different primer back off your load 10% and work up looking for presure increase .
I like to find a loading book that gives a load similar to what i am loading using the powder or primer i am changing to and see how they compare . Some books give powder brand but not case , primer or bullet manf. it will say 30 cal. 150 gr.jacketed bullet ,  lg rifle primer . This will misleade many to assume changing is ok and often it is BUT not always . Sometimes temp effects primer and powder , sometimes its accy. and sometimes its down right danger in the form of higher pressure .
BTW i have always been told fed primers are thin skinned and easy to set off which when investigators want to make a gun slam fire they use them in test true or not i don't really know , I like Win., Rem , CCI BR and arsneal  primers . The Arsneal primers help keep from slam fire accidents .

[Lone Star]

Years ago I performed a primer change test with my short barreled Ruger BH in .45LC.  I used the Speer 260-grain HP and 20.0 grains of H4227, all were 5-shot groups fired within a 60 minute period:

Primer......Velocity......ES......Moa
CCI 300......943..........41......12
CCI 350......957..........77.......7
Fed 150......976..........46.......6
Fed 155......985..........37......10

A 42 fps increase in velocity would also indicate an increase in pressure.  And clearly a low extreme spread did not mean better accuracy.  Bottom line - changing primer can cause significant differences - or not.




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[carbineman]

If you find one that you like, then buy 5000 or more with the same lot# and then you don't have to worry about load changes. I have always stocked lots of primers with the same lot# and will NEVER let my stock fall low.

Yes eventually will have to put a new component into the mix, but with propellant available in 8 lb containers and primers in 5000 round lots, one should not have to rework loads for quite awhile.

In semi-auto rifles, I am not as fussy about changing components. In my long range accuracy arms, I stick with the same components as long as possible.

During this component "crisis" I have purchased some primers that I normally don't use, but these will go into 9mm and 7.62x39mm loadings where my lack of open sight markmanship (old eyes) will not allow me to know if the component change will cause a big change in point of impact.